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They should have to produce and justify it on the basis of the previous salary the position required to fill. And I mean this is the sense of them being forced

They should have to produce and justify it on the basis of the previous salary the position required to fill. And I mean this is the sense of them being forced to err on the side of disclosure, I'm sick of this shit where companies always get the discretionary aspect when they need cold, hard, regulation and absolute liabillity. The burden needs to start shiftingto the more facile and natural starting point: the business/hirer. They're running the ship, they need to start charting a legal and practicable course that respects the dignity of the sea of jobseekers. This whole "based on qualifications" is stupid because there's obviously a base level of competency required for candidates and successfull candidates and at the end of the day, its more reasonable to make the previous salary the baseline unless the position has radically altered. If they lie, charge 'em with wire fraud and swoop in as a lesson to the next jerk who wants to play games with hiring and payroll Hell crowdsource it and turn the panopticon back on the abyss where it belongs. Edit: just have a simple test like how much does the least qualified yet acceptable candidate demand and work your way up from there if they have your "special magic abillities"/quals.

Terr_ 3y ago
> They should have to produce and justify it on the basis of the previous salary the position required to fill. This leads to some ambiguities, ex: 1. How would that work when a company is adding totally new positions? For example, a small company adding DevOps, or where the previous worker was a contractor? 2. How does anyone reliably distinguish moved/renamed positions versus ones that might be dropping an old position and adding new one? 3. For similar titles but very different business-areas, does the "Team Lead" of a new business-analytics unit inherit the past salary of the "Team Lead" for janitorial services?
- Obscurity4340 3y ago
  Can I ask legit what is the current deal? Do people go into interviews completely blinded as to what the position is minimally and maximally worth? It seems so insane to me as someone who's been out this game for so long now.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    optimistically, pay comes up in the recruiting call or even in the application. There's an entire psychology to what number you put or if you even give a number at first, but it should be discussed before a hiring manager comes in. Pessimistically (or for entry level positions) it comes at the end in an informal offer letter before negotiations open up. you'd need to do general research on the position and gleam salaries from Glassdoor to minimize surprises. or be ready with counter offers to negotiate.
    - Obscurity4340 3y ago
      Ya, unless there's a "price floor" you know is at least satisfactory (to say nothing of optimality or actual worth) that is immediately apparent before you even get to the apply button, thats complete bullshit. Time is money and companies need to stop treating people like theirs is worthless and thus not deserving of being able to zoom! by seeing the going rate immediately and not even having to doll up and go out to meet them tete-a-tete. Edit: also, on the conjectural side, the fact we need to use words like "optimistically" and "pessimism" or the like/speak in these superlatives is indicative of how hokey all this is. It should be the most natural thing in the world, like a restaurant menu with [gasp] prices, instead there's this Apple culture of secrecy which is compelyely inappropriate for at least a public labour market. It really is bullshit and ripe for harsh regulation taking out the biggest bullshitters and beneficiaries of the current system.

Terr_ 3y ago

> They should have to produce and justify it on the basis of the previous salary the position required to fill. This leads to some ambiguities, ex: 1. How would that work when a company is adding totally new positions? For example, a small company adding DevOps, or where the previous worker was a contractor? 2. How does anyone reliably distinguish moved/renamed positions versus ones that might be dropping an old position and adding new one? 3. For similar titles but very different business-areas, does the "Team Lead" of a new business-analytics unit inherit the past salary of the "Team Lead" for janitorial services?

Obscurity4340 3y ago
Can I ask legit what is the current deal? Do people go into interviews completely blinded as to what the position is minimally and maximally worth? It seems so insane to me as someone who's been out this game for so long now.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  optimistically, pay comes up in the recruiting call or even in the application. There's an entire psychology to what number you put or if you even give a number at first, but it should be discussed before a hiring manager comes in. Pessimistically (or for entry level positions) it comes at the end in an informal offer letter before negotiations open up. you'd need to do general research on the position and gleam salaries from Glassdoor to minimize surprises. or be ready with counter offers to negotiate.
  - Obscurity4340 3y ago
    Ya, unless there's a "price floor" you know is at least satisfactory (to say nothing of optimality or actual worth) that is immediately apparent before you even get to the apply button, thats complete bullshit. Time is money and companies need to stop treating people like theirs is worthless and thus not deserving of being able to zoom! by seeing the going rate immediately and not even having to doll up and go out to meet them tete-a-tete. Edit: also, on the conjectural side, the fact we need to use words like "optimistically" and "pessimism" or the like/speak in these superlatives is indicative of how hokey all this is. It should be the most natural thing in the world, like a restaurant menu with [gasp] prices, instead there's this Apple culture of secrecy which is compelyely inappropriate for at least a public labour market. It really is bullshit and ripe for harsh regulation taking out the biggest bullshitters and beneficiaries of the current system.