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FortNine on HN! I love it when two different aspects of my life collide! For the HNers who don't know much about motorcycles, in the motorcycling world there'

FortNine on HN! I love it when two different aspects of my life collide! For the HNers who don't know much about motorcycles, in the motorcycling world there's a big argument whether ABS is a net good or not. The old-timers tend to say "learn to ride your bike, you can beat ABS." Manufacturers site statistics saying ABS saves lives. This video is good in that it shows old-timer braking + ABS gives the best of both worlds. Somewhat paradoxically, in the world of motorcycles, even with ABS, just slamming on the brakes isn't the best strategy for emergency stopping. You'll stop faster with two-phase braking. That's why it's critical motorcycle riders practice emergency braking. You have to practice it enough to make it muscle memory.

aidenn0 3y ago
> ...just slamming on the brakes isn't the best strategy for emergency stopping It seems like there is no technical reason why phased braking couldn't be added to a more advanced ABS system. Early car ABS systems were also much worse for stopping distance than threshold braking, but more advanced systems have made up much of the difference.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
JohnFen 3y ago
> The old-timers tend to say "learn to ride your bike, you can beat ABS." Manufacturers site statistics saying ABS saves lives. It seems to me that both of these things can be true at the same time.
whartung 3y ago
> That's why it's critical motorcycle riders practice emergency braking. You have to practice it enough to make it muscle memory. Indeed threshold braking (which is what this is) is a very important skill to practice for a motorcycle rider. However, that said, while folks can practice the maneuver, what is very difficult to practice is the situation. It’s one thing to practice on a dry parking lot in front of a cone or tennis ball. It’s quite another to practice on the street in a crummy intersection with an F-150 turning left in front of you. It’s always important to have data like this, talking about limits of systems, our role and impact as riders with such systems. This is a good video (all of Ryan’s stuff is excellent). But I have seen others actually advocate switching ABS off, and I think that’s a bit irresponsible. Off road is a different problem, and a complicated environment for an ABS system. The track is another controlled space where folks can test limitations. Many bikes offer the ability to disable ABS systems (as a first class concept) just for these reasons. But neither of those are the street. There are a lot of situations where straight line stopping is not necessarily the correct response. ABS is a boon in more cases than it’s not when it comes to emergency maneuvers. The street is complex and unforgiving. Anyone who’s been in the community for any length of time knows about very skilled, even professional, riders that the street has taken from their families. I love motorcycles and riding. I have for a very long time. And my simple rule is I don’t recommend it to anyone. It’s very dangerous. As riders, these systems are excellent, and get better every year. Practice threshold breaking, by all means. Practice everything. But on the street, you need every edge. Leave your ABS on.
- taylodl 3y ago
  Agreed 100% Never disable ABS when riding on the street. You never know what you're going to do in an actual emergency situation (most riders only use the rear brake in such scenarios?!) so it's good to have ABS to back up your lizard brain.

aidenn0 3y ago

> ...just slamming on the brakes isn't the best strategy for emergency stopping It seems like there is no technical reason why phased braking couldn't be added to a more advanced ABS system. Early car ABS systems were also much worse for stopping distance than threshold braking, but more advanced systems have made up much of the difference.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

JohnFen 3y ago

> The old-timers tend to say "learn to ride your bike, you can beat ABS." Manufacturers site statistics saying ABS saves lives. It seems to me that both of these things can be true at the same time.

whartung 3y ago

> That's why it's critical motorcycle riders practice emergency braking. You have to practice it enough to make it muscle memory. Indeed threshold braking (which is what this is) is a very important skill to practice for a motorcycle rider. However, that said, while folks can practice the maneuver, what is very difficult to practice is the situation. It’s one thing to practice on a dry parking lot in front of a cone or tennis ball. It’s quite another to practice on the street in a crummy intersection with an F-150 turning left in front of you. It’s always important to have data like this, talking about limits of systems, our role and impact as riders with such systems. This is a good video (all of Ryan’s stuff is excellent). But I have seen others actually advocate switching ABS off, and I think that’s a bit irresponsible. Off road is a different problem, and a complicated environment for an ABS system. The track is another controlled space where folks can test limitations. Many bikes offer the ability to disable ABS systems (as a first class concept) just for these reasons. But neither of those are the street. There are a lot of situations where straight line stopping is not necessarily the correct response. ABS is a boon in more cases than it’s not when it comes to emergency maneuvers. The street is complex and unforgiving. Anyone who’s been in the community for any length of time knows about very skilled, even professional, riders that the street has taken from their families. I love motorcycles and riding. I have for a very long time. And my simple rule is I don’t recommend it to anyone. It’s very dangerous. As riders, these systems are excellent, and get better every year. Practice threshold breaking, by all means. Practice everything. But on the street, you need every edge. Leave your ABS on.

taylodl 3y ago
Agreed 100% Never disable ABS when riding on the street. You never know what you're going to do in an actual emergency situation (most riders only use the rear brake in such scenarios?!) so it's good to have ABS to back up your lizard brain.