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Interesting note. Ever wondered where punch cards came from? Believe it or not, they date back to the early 1800s and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquar

by btilly 3y ago

Interesting note. Ever wondered where punch cards came from? Believe it or not, they date back to the early 1800s and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquard_machine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquard_machine for weaving cloth. They became used for computing in the late 1800s, notably for the 1890 census with https://www.census.gov/history/www/innovations/technology/the_hollerith_tabulator.html https://www.census.gov/history/www/innovations/technology/th.... The inventor of that, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Hollerith https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Hollerith, founded one of four companies that became CTR, which was later named IBM. When electronic stored computers became a thing, IBM naturally moved from mechanical computing with punch cards to using electronic computing with data and programs off of punch cards. We like thinking of computing having started with electronic computers. It really didn't. Punch cards were the last relic of a history of mechanical computing that predated transistors, electronic computers, and even the vacuum tubes that electronic computers were first built from!

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nemoniac 3y ago
There is a dark side to the story of punched cards too, as documented in this book. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust
- btilly 3y ago
  When you know that history, IBM asking for an exemption to the JSLint license becomes less funny. Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hCimLnIsDA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hCimLnIsDA (2 minutes) to hear the story from the developer's point of view. Then consider how many totalitarian states today are using IBM computers to track their population. The developer might not realize it, but IBM lawyers absolutely know that they can be fairly accused of using JSLint for evil.
  - elzbardico 3y ago
    > Then consider how many totalitarian states today are using IBM computers to track their population Nah, the CIA, NSA only uses IBM mainframes to administrative tasks like payroll. For all the tracking and spying their own population stuff they use linux like the rest of us.
    - mianos 3y ago
      Actually the CIA was known to be using NeXT. I believe it was the Intel port. (That said, any large agency probably uses a bit of everything, I know they use Linux now, managed by salt-stack I believe).
    - btilly 3y ago
      I wasn't referring to the CIA and NSA. A lot of large organizations jumped on mainframes back in the 1960s and 1970s. That included US-friendly governments. Some of whom aren't very nice. Those systems and business relationships tend to survive. IBM is good about keeping it quiet. But occasionally someone notices and there is a scandal. The last major one was in 2019 when people found out that IBM was selling face recognition technology to United Arab Emirates. IBM discontinued that technology in 2020 because of the scandal.
- tgv 3y ago
  There is a dark side to the wheel, if you use guilt by association. The problem was not one of technology, but one of immoral salesmen.
WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
> They became used for computing in the late 1800s, notably for the 1890 census Those census records would have been awesome. I was lamenting it's absence just yesterday.
bregma 3y ago
Punch cards for weaving looms date back to the industrial revolution (early 1700s) a century before Jacquard. That's like saying Watt invented the steam engine.
- dghughes 3y ago
  And the weaver workers revolted at automation of looms causing job losses. They threw their wooden shoes called "sabot" into the loom works in protest jamming it aka sabotage.
- btilly 3y ago
  Citation needed. Historians that I have encountered all say early 1800s for punch cards. For example the Smithsonian: https://www.si.edu/spotlight/punch-cards https://www.si.edu/spotlight/punch-cards. Are you confusing those with earlier developments in textiles? I also doubt your claim about when the industrial revolution started. Historians do differ on when the industrial revolution started. But you normally see figures in second half of the 1700s. For example they might cite James Watts' improvements to the steam engine in 1778. For early 1700s you might be thinking of the steam engine, which was already in use. But the early steam engines were extremely inefficient. Their only real use case was for pumping water out of coal mines where both coal and water were available. The coal itself was being mined for use in fireplaces to keep people warm in the winter, because the forests had been cut down so there was no wood available.
  - spiralx 3y ago
    The use of a continuous roll of paper with punched perforations to control a loom was invented in 1725 by Basile Bouchon. Then in 1745 Jacques de Vaucanson invented the first fully automated loom using punch cards which unfortunately was not well received at the time - perhaps due to pushback over the automation making the draw boy role redundant - and it wasn't until after his death that Jacquard reintroduced the idea alongside other improvements and was a success. de Vaucanson also invented the chain drive and slide lathe apparently, he was all about automation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_de_Vaucanson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_de_Vaucanson Funnily enough the Smithsonian doesn't mention his invention in their article on him: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/eighteenth-century-robot-actually-used-breathing-play-flute-180962214/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/eighteenth-century...

by btilly 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

nemoniac 3y ago

There is a dark side to the story of punched cards too, as documented in this book. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

btilly 3y ago
When you know that history, IBM asking for an exemption to the JSLint license becomes less funny. Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hCimLnIsDA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hCimLnIsDA (2 minutes) to hear the story from the developer's point of view. Then consider how many totalitarian states today are using IBM computers to track their population. The developer might not realize it, but IBM lawyers absolutely know that they can be fairly accused of using JSLint for evil.
- elzbardico 3y ago
  > Then consider how many totalitarian states today are using IBM computers to track their population Nah, the CIA, NSA only uses IBM mainframes to administrative tasks like payroll. For all the tracking and spying their own population stuff they use linux like the rest of us.
  - mianos 3y ago
    Actually the CIA was known to be using NeXT. I believe it was the Intel port. (That said, any large agency probably uses a bit of everything, I know they use Linux now, managed by salt-stack I believe).
  - btilly 3y ago
    I wasn't referring to the CIA and NSA. A lot of large organizations jumped on mainframes back in the 1960s and 1970s. That included US-friendly governments. Some of whom aren't very nice. Those systems and business relationships tend to survive. IBM is good about keeping it quiet. But occasionally someone notices and there is a scandal. The last major one was in 2019 when people found out that IBM was selling face recognition technology to United Arab Emirates. IBM discontinued that technology in 2020 because of the scandal.
tgv 3y ago
There is a dark side to the wheel, if you use guilt by association. The problem was not one of technology, but one of immoral salesmen.

WarOnPrivacy 3y ago

> They became used for computing in the late 1800s, notably for the 1890 census Those census records would have been awesome. I was lamenting it's absence just yesterday.

bregma 3y ago

Punch cards for weaving looms date back to the industrial revolution (early 1700s) a century before Jacquard. That's like saying Watt invented the steam engine.

dghughes 3y ago
And the weaver workers revolted at automation of looms causing job losses. They threw their wooden shoes called "sabot" into the loom works in protest jamming it aka sabotage.
btilly 3y ago
Citation needed. Historians that I have encountered all say early 1800s for punch cards. For example the Smithsonian: https://www.si.edu/spotlight/punch-cards https://www.si.edu/spotlight/punch-cards. Are you confusing those with earlier developments in textiles? I also doubt your claim about when the industrial revolution started. Historians do differ on when the industrial revolution started. But you normally see figures in second half of the 1700s. For example they might cite James Watts' improvements to the steam engine in 1778. For early 1700s you might be thinking of the steam engine, which was already in use. But the early steam engines were extremely inefficient. Their only real use case was for pumping water out of coal mines where both coal and water were available. The coal itself was being mined for use in fireplaces to keep people warm in the winter, because the forests had been cut down so there was no wood available.
- spiralx 3y ago
  The use of a continuous roll of paper with punched perforations to control a loom was invented in 1725 by Basile Bouchon. Then in 1745 Jacques de Vaucanson invented the first fully automated loom using punch cards which unfortunately was not well received at the time - perhaps due to pushback over the automation making the draw boy role redundant - and it wasn't until after his death that Jacquard reintroduced the idea alongside other improvements and was a success. de Vaucanson also invented the chain drive and slide lathe apparently, he was all about automation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_de_Vaucanson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_de_Vaucanson Funnily enough the Smithsonian doesn't mention his invention in their article on him: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/eighteenth-century-robot-actually-used-breathing-play-flute-180962214/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/eighteenth-century...