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"In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back collisions. Once I pushed so har

• saalweachter 3y ago
  There are a lot of knock-on effects. For instance, a lot of drivers prefer to swerve rather than brake ... because they're afraid of getting hit from behind, because everyone is tail-gating.
  • david_acm 3y ago
    For this precise reason I like to drive with tons of buffer to the car ahead. Given the fact that I am usually in a sports car, I know I can brake much faster than most people around me. Should I need to come to a complete stop, I can control the braking distance to make sure the cars behind me are not only aware that I'm coming to a full stop, which gives them the time/distance they need to brake, but it also gives me time to react to them should they fail to see me slowing down (not paying attention). An added bonus is that most of time the impatient drivers will just go around me and I don't need to worry too much about tailgaters.
    • aidenn0 3y ago
      > An added bonus is that most of time the impatient drivers will just go around me and I don't need to worry too much about tailgaters. I so wish this were more true; I've been tailgated for 10s of miles in the right lane on a freeway with light traffic that was never fewer than 3 lanes for the entirety of that distance.
      • JohnFen 3y ago
        When I've encountered this, I've just taken my foot off the accelerator and let the car gradually lose speed. Eventually, the person behind loses patience and passes me angrily.
        • pixl97 3y ago
          Yep, it's always better to put the car behind you in a non-accelerating frame before they slowing down is required. Honestly I would love for tailgating to have automated enforcement with each ticket doubling in fines. In a few weeks we'd weed most of the bad drivers off the road, and at least in my imagined scenario road safety would increase dramatically.
      • LAC-Tech 3y ago
        Wind your window down, stick your hand out, and gesture for them to pass. It works most times I've tried it.
        • saalweachter 3y ago
          I've had mixed success with honking.
• thereisnospork 3y ago
  >I think full braking should be part of driver training. A lot of people I know are very hesitant to brake full force and I think a lot of accidents happen because people don't really brake all out when needed. Couldn't agree more. It's beyond negligent that with the current state of drivers ed the first time a driver will need to emergency brake, or even feel abs activate will be in a potentially life or deal situation.
• grecy 3y ago
  > I think full braking should be part of driver training I thought it was. I distinctly remember my Dad telling me to slam on the brakes while teaching me to drive. I pushed them hard, but nothing crazy. He said to get up to speed and kick the pedal through the floor and hold it there. Older car, full lockup and skid for a good distance. We did that more than once. Now 25 years later, I do exactly the same thing every year at the first snowfall , and a few times during the winter to get the feel of everything going extremely vague.
  • JohnFen 3y ago
    > I distinctly remember my Dad telling me to slam on the brakes while teaching me to drive. Same when my mother taught me to drive. She even took advantage of rainy days to take me out to a large empty parking lot and we practiced how to deal with hydroplaning.
  • kimixa 3y ago
    It definitely is as part of the UK driving test, though they normally tell you it's coming up and intentionally take you to a quiet back road and make sure it's completely empty first. In my test the instructor told me to keep driving until they wacked their clipboard on the dash, then I had to STOP as quickly as possible, and you'd fail if you didn't apply heavy brakes quick enough. And as this is common in the test it was gone over a few times by my instructor to prepare. Though they also checked the car I was using had ABS first, they might have had a slightly different process otherwise? Though in the UK it's common to have a professional driving instructor with their own car you'd use for learning and borrow for the test, so there was likely an expected minimum age and spec of car people were doing their tests in.
    • lmm 3y ago
      It used to be a mandatory part of the UK driving test. Now it's one test out of three, so you can skip preparing it and just retake your test if you get unlucky.
      • kimixa 3y ago
• dsego 3y ago
  But it also requires some resolve when the abs starts pushing back on the pedal. The instinct is to lift your foot instead of fighting the pedal, which is what you should do.
  • Hamuko 3y ago
    The instinct? I've never had that instinct since I've never driven a car without ABS for any extended period of time.
    • dsego 3y ago
      Right, but if the pedal suddenly starts pushing back, are you naturally expecting that? I was involved in three collisions where I failed to stop in time, and all three times the pedal pushed back. I didn't really expect it the first time. Talking about 90s and early 2000s cars, so not brake-by-wire.
      • Hamuko 3y ago
        >Right, but if the pedal suddenly starts pushing back, are you naturally expecting that? Under hard braking conditions? Yeah. Especially since we have quite a lot of snow and ice here every year, you do sorta get used to the ABS feel and crunching sound. I once had a close encounter on snow where some idiot came way too fast a downhill and slid onto my lane. Pretty sure I kept my foot planted on the brake while going as far right as there was road there.
        • aidenn0 3y ago
          Geography matters; there are people who came of age during the recent western drought that have driven a total of less than an hour in rain; my wife (who grew up in California) first drove in the snow in her late 20s.
  • tass 3y ago
    With brake-by-wire, is this even necessary? I thought that ABS feeling occurred because the brake pedal was connected to the master cylinder, but isn't necessarily desired. My bike definitely pulses the brakes in a way that you feel on the controls, but they are directly connected to the hydraulics.
• sojournerc 3y ago
  My driver's education in Colorado included going out on a frozen lake and practicing counter-steering into a slide, as well as a sense of how cars behave in slippery conditions. Very good skill to have for icy mountain driving. You can also find an empty parking lot after a snow storm and do donuts for "education". Just avoid light poles ;)
  • rqtwteye 3y ago
    “ You can also find an empty parking lot after a snow storm and do donuts for "education". Just avoid light poles ;)” Me and my friends did this for hours after each snowfall. Great training. One of my friends hadn’t heard of your light pole advice and mangled his Golf GTI pretty good.
  • ek_erilaz 3y ago
    Same, for the "education"! In my hometown, lakes and rivers remained frozen for half the year. There were two such lakes separated by narrow dirt trails through the trees. Each winter, some kind soul went out there with their plow and created a drifting course that snaked around one lake, through the woods, wound around the other lake, and back. We'd take whatever vehicles we had access to and race there at night. I'll never forget careening around that track with the windows down, snow blowing in, music blaring, swerving around my friend's mom's minivan and trying to fend off another buddy in his rusty Toyota pickup. I like to think we became safer winter drivers as a result.
• ehaliewicz2 3y ago
  This might be a little too far, but I sometimes say to my friends that a minor crash should actually be part of driver training. Modern cars feel extremely safe, and nearly drive themselves, so many people do not take driving as seriously as they should, and not as seriously as they do after they have their first collision. Perhaps being required to actually use 100% braking power to pass is enough :) In this respect, motorcycle training courses are MUCH better, and have numerous braking and swerving drills, but they have to be, because motorcycles require a higher-level of attention and are significantly more dangerous to operate than a car.
  • rowyourboat 3y ago
    > because motorcycles require a higher-level of attention and are significantly more dangerous to operate than a car. For the driver. Cars are more dangerous than motorcycles for everybody but the people inside/on it, which means that swerving and braking exercises are actually much more necessary for car drivers than for motorcycle riders
    • pixl97 3y ago
      Weight is the winner at equal velocity. This said, I prefer my mode of transportation to have a hard crunchy outside to protect my soft gooey insides.
  • LAC-Tech 3y ago
    In this respect, motorcycle training courses are MUCH better, and have numerous braking and swerving drills, but they have to be, because motorcycles require a higher-level of attention and are significantly more dangerous to operate than a car. Then why does almost every motorcyclist I see ride dangerously? They all follow too close. Many will spill over into the oncoming traffic lane to overtake something in their own lane, just expecting you to move to the shoulder so they can go the wrong way in your lane. Later I see them stopped for fuel or food and it's all grey haired dudes.
    • lmm 3y ago
• rented_mule 3y ago
  Shortly after buying a car, I always go a large, empty parking lot late and night, get up to about 30 mph and stop as hard as I can. I want to understand what it feels like before I get into a panic situation. I only buy a car every 10 years on average, so it's interesting to see the progress in braking. My current car (a 2014 model) stopped so quickly and so violently that it frightened me. Everything not tied down in the car was flying around. I thought I must have hit something, but I didn't. I did a few more such stops to try to get used to it. It still makes my heart race, but at least I know to expect it.
  • latchkey 3y ago
    What are you planning on getting next year?
    • c22 3y ago
      GP didn't say they buy a new car every 10 years.
      • rented_mule 3y ago
        That's right. I'm hoping to get another 10+ years out of this one. It's up to 165K miles, and I hope it lasts beyond 300K. My wife and I only have the one car despite living in a rural area and it fits our use cases perfectly.
        • latchkey 3y ago
          Sorry, I read it as every 10 years. Agreed on the lowering of consumerism.
  • at_a_remove 3y ago
    Similarly, when it snows I like to find a parking lot and practice a few skids before I drive any real distance.
    • 3y ago
• dthul 3y ago
  My teacher made me do a full force brake during my training. It was more intense than I had anticipated, and my teacher forgot that he still had his sunglasses on his head, which promptly smashed into the windshield :D
• Night_Thastus 3y ago
  What's interesting to me is that in emergencies, apparently many people don't brake hard enough. So now they've created brake-assist options that try to determine when such a case is occurring, and slam on the brakes as hard as the car is able. As incredulous as that sounds, it's apparently improved overall safety. From what I've read the tech has been around since the 90's but has become much more standard.
  • RandallBrown 3y ago
    I've never been in a situation where I didn't brake hard enough, but I'm a little surprised that's possible. I figured the amount of pressure required to lock the wheels was fairly minimal.
    • fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
      On modern cars with ABS you can’t lock the wheels, can you?
      • Night_Thastus 3y ago
        You can't.
  • Aqua_Geek 3y ago
    > What's interesting to me is that in emergencies, apparently many people don't brake hard enough. I did the Mini Stunt Driving Course the other week in Palm Springs. One of the first things they cover is emergency braking. Even in that situation — not an emergency; the whole point is to stop the car as fast as possible — I had trouble overcoming the urge to NOT brake as hard as I could. It took a few runs for me to get myself to stand on the brakes properly.
  • nucleardog 3y ago
    I’m pretty sure half the problem is that people can’t even _get_ the brake pedal to the floor. When I get in a car and need to adjust the seat, I slide my butt to the back of the seat and push the brake pedal all the way to the floor. What I’m looking for is being able to have it on the floor slightly before my knee locks and without my foot needing to leave the floor (i.e., not lifting my foot up and pushing with the tip of my toes or something). I know that I can apply 100% braking force. If I were much further back I could not. I often get in the cars of people 6”+ shorter than me and… don’t need to slide the seat back. I get in cars driven by people around the same height as me and need to pull the seat forward. My wife is one example—she’s around 4” shorter than me and when I drive her car I keep the seat in the same position she does. It’s a pet theory that the majority of people driving on the road day to day have their seat positioned so they’re actually physically incapable of braking with full strength.
• sbierwagen 3y ago
  >I think full braking should be part of driver training. Also if you lose brake assist. I've read a handful of "out of control car" stories where the driver reported the brakes didn't work. Well yes, without power brakes it feels like stepping on a piece of wood. You need to apply a LOT of force to stop a modern car without power brakes, "putting both feet on the pedal and pushing with everything you've got" a lot. Bending the brake pedal is better than crossing into oncoming traffic.
  • pixl97 3y ago
    Talking about "brakes didn't work" it always terrifies me when I see people just flying in heavy rain. I've done intentional hydroplanes in closed areas and even when you know it's coming it can be hard to resist the urge to panic.
• jakeinspace 3y ago
  I got into my one and only accident less than a year after getting my first car, when another driver ran a stop sign. I was the one who tee-boned them, because they actually accelerated quite quickly out of the stop while I was going about 50 mph with right of way on a feeder road. I still can’t shake the feeling that I under-braked, although I did see some solid tread marks before the point of impact on the road. I don’t think it was a very avoidable accident on my part, but I probably could’ve hit them with less speed if I’d put all my weight on the brake. My back would certainly have appreciated it.
  • toast0 3y ago
    Without knowing the conditions, since you seem to be asking for internet quarterbacking (please feel free to ignore if not)... Braking harder may have also applied maximum braking sooner, or you may have been able to get tread marks on all wheels instead of only some wheels. Also, as a more experienced driver, I definitely have fewer expectations that other vehicles will stop when they're supposed to. If you had visibility of the vehicle before it blew the stop sign, you may have been able to predict and slow down sooner or take evasive action.
• _yb2s 3y ago
  Nowadays it would make sense for most people with ABS to learn "full braking" but people still need to know if they have ABS or not, because full braking is dangerous without ABS. Unfortunately, I think 99% of drivers, including those in older cars without ABS, aren't really sure what ABS is.