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But why do you even think this is so important -- it achieves nothing we don't already have terrestrially and just pollutes the sky visually (causing problems w

But why do you even think this is so important -- it achieves nothing we don't already have terrestrially and just pollutes the sky visually (causing problems with ground based telescopes) and pollutes the atmosphere we actually breathe: https://science.slashdot.org/story/23/11/05/0330226/spacecraft-metals-left-in-the-wake-of-humanitys-path-to-the-stars https://science.slashdot.org/story/23/11/05/0330226/spacecra... I can't see any upsides to this venture.

mensetmanusman 3y ago
Shipping tracking to reduce black market exchanges and human/drug trafficking. Also, without starlink Ukraine has said they would have been defeated quite quickly. (Ie fighting without a gun). There are many upsides.
- swagempire 3y ago
  > Shipping tracking to reduce black market exchanges and human/drug trafficking I'm sorry-- what? Surely a totally global satellite network available in remote regions such as mountains and jungles would just be a force multiplier for these kinds of activities. > Also, without starlink Ukraine has said they would have been defeated quite quickly. (Ie fighting without a gun). What? : https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/07/ukraine-starlink-musk-biography/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/07/ukraine... > There are many upsides Please let us know when you've found some.
  - inemesitaffia 3y ago
    Ukraine uses starlink for live artillery correction. The drone operators don't just send coordinates. They send live video. The people firing artillery can see if they hit things live
panick21_ 3y ago
Ah so you can attach a cable to a plane? Or a ship? If it achieves nothing, why is there global demand? The simple fact it, it is superior in many ways for a huge number of application and just denying the is never work. As for the 'visual pollution' its mostly just not true. For the waste majority of humans its invisible basically always outside of a few situations. For most terrestrial telescopes it doesn't really matter much. Broad visual surveying telescopes take a slight hit but its not like they will be no longer working. Many of the issues SpaceX has addressed and made the problem way less impactful. Some very sensitive radio telescopes are also slightly effect and having some regulation like we do on earth for electronic devices would make sense. The idea that its some horrible thing just doesn't hold up. The benefits outweigh the cost by a gigantic amount. Starlink is used to give good internet to native Americans who life away from infrastructure. The worth of these things are far, far, far higher then the few 10s of millions we lose in observatory performance.
Dig1t 3y ago
I personally have good internet access because of Starlink. Before that I had very poor options. Living outside of a metro area is a nightmare for internet access. People living in cities take it for granted but it's a complete game changer for my entire neighborhood. Big corps treated us like shit and wanted exorbitant amounts of money to run cables to us. How is providing access to the internet not an awesome thing for society? There are millions of people in my same situation for which this system is doing good. Also airplanes and light from cities pollute the sky infinitely more than these satellites do.
- swagempire 3y ago
  Well I'm happy to that it fills your particular niche. You seem satisfied.
dev_tty01 3y ago
>it a achieves nothing we don't already have terrestrially Sorry, but this is a very first world, urban perspective. Please have a little empathy. I live in the US and have only one choice for internet from home and it is lousy. Starlink has been a dramatic change for us. This is the situation for many, many people in the US and around the world. Starlink is absolutely offering something that is NOT available terrestrially.
- swagempire 3y ago
  No it's not at all a first world perspective. I live in the so called developing nations. Aside from some people who might live in rural areas in large countries that are hard to cover georgraphically -- and these people probably could not afford Star Link anyways -- 4G and soon to be 5G is ubiquitous. There is no need for StarLink generally.
  - dev_tty01 3y ago
    I have no cell phone coverage at home, let alone 4G or 5G. I am 10 miles from the center of a town with a population of about 80,000. Most people just don't get how bad internet access is in many areas. > Aside from some people who might live in rural areas in large countries that are hard to cover georgraphically > There is no need for StarLink generally. You point out that there is a market for StarLink and then you say it isn't needed. I'm confused. At any rate, no point in arguing about it. If there is no need they will lose a lot of money. If there is a need, they will make a lot of money. Time will tell.
  - inemesitaffia 3y ago
    I'm from said area you claim to be from. If you use data as much as power users in a month you might well save money on starlink. There's people importing dishes to use in cities in non covered countries today because of the condition of local networks in cities and the per bit costs Check the steam download stats for top ISP's. It might surprise you the performance Delta with alternatives. Telcos are complaining about roll out and spectrum costs. Some of them couldn't survive the 4G transition

mensetmanusman 3y ago

Shipping tracking to reduce black market exchanges and human/drug trafficking. Also, without starlink Ukraine has said they would have been defeated quite quickly. (Ie fighting without a gun). There are many upsides.

swagempire 3y ago
> Shipping tracking to reduce black market exchanges and human/drug trafficking I'm sorry-- what? Surely a totally global satellite network available in remote regions such as mountains and jungles would just be a force multiplier for these kinds of activities. > Also, without starlink Ukraine has said they would have been defeated quite quickly. (Ie fighting without a gun). What? : https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/07/ukraine-starlink-musk-biography/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/07/ukraine... > There are many upsides Please let us know when you've found some.
- inemesitaffia 3y ago
  Ukraine uses starlink for live artillery correction. The drone operators don't just send coordinates. They send live video. The people firing artillery can see if they hit things live

panick21_ 3y ago

Ah so you can attach a cable to a plane? Or a ship? If it achieves nothing, why is there global demand? The simple fact it, it is superior in many ways for a huge number of application and just denying the is never work. As for the 'visual pollution' its mostly just not true. For the waste majority of humans its invisible basically always outside of a few situations. For most terrestrial telescopes it doesn't really matter much. Broad visual surveying telescopes take a slight hit but its not like they will be no longer working. Many of the issues SpaceX has addressed and made the problem way less impactful. Some very sensitive radio telescopes are also slightly effect and having some regulation like we do on earth for electronic devices would make sense. The idea that its some horrible thing just doesn't hold up. The benefits outweigh the cost by a gigantic amount. Starlink is used to give good internet to native Americans who life away from infrastructure. The worth of these things are far, far, far higher then the few 10s of millions we lose in observatory performance.

Dig1t 3y ago

I personally have good internet access because of Starlink. Before that I had very poor options. Living outside of a metro area is a nightmare for internet access. People living in cities take it for granted but it's a complete game changer for my entire neighborhood. Big corps treated us like shit and wanted exorbitant amounts of money to run cables to us. How is providing access to the internet not an awesome thing for society? There are millions of people in my same situation for which this system is doing good. Also airplanes and light from cities pollute the sky infinitely more than these satellites do.

swagempire 3y ago
Well I'm happy to that it fills your particular niche. You seem satisfied.

dev_tty01 3y ago

>it a achieves nothing we don't already have terrestrially Sorry, but this is a very first world, urban perspective. Please have a little empathy. I live in the US and have only one choice for internet from home and it is lousy. Starlink has been a dramatic change for us. This is the situation for many, many people in the US and around the world. Starlink is absolutely offering something that is NOT available terrestrially.

swagempire 3y ago
No it's not at all a first world perspective. I live in the so called developing nations. Aside from some people who might live in rural areas in large countries that are hard to cover georgraphically -- and these people probably could not afford Star Link anyways -- 4G and soon to be 5G is ubiquitous. There is no need for StarLink generally.
- dev_tty01 3y ago
  I have no cell phone coverage at home, let alone 4G or 5G. I am 10 miles from the center of a town with a population of about 80,000. Most people just don't get how bad internet access is in many areas. > Aside from some people who might live in rural areas in large countries that are hard to cover georgraphically > There is no need for StarLink generally. You point out that there is a market for StarLink and then you say it isn't needed. I'm confused. At any rate, no point in arguing about it. If there is no need they will lose a lot of money. If there is a need, they will make a lot of money. Time will tell.
- inemesitaffia 3y ago
  I'm from said area you claim to be from. If you use data as much as power users in a month you might well save money on starlink. There's people importing dishes to use in cities in non covered countries today because of the condition of local networks in cities and the per bit costs Check the steam download stats for top ISP's. It might surprise you the performance Delta with alternatives. Telcos are complaining about roll out and spectrum costs. Some of them couldn't survive the 4G transition