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> This state has become such a shit place to live > Make sf great again by pushing apple out. So the current status of SF must mean the whole state is like th

> This state has become such a shit place to live > Make sf great again by pushing apple out. So the current status of SF must mean the whole state is like that? You started off the sarcastic note but switched to saying seriously, thanks for the sweeping statement. > Actually maybe this deal will make apple move to Texas. Eh, people leave for no individual income tax then get hit by the even higher property taxes.

Covzire 3y ago
Quick napkin math based on simple google searches: Most tech workers will be paying 9.3% in CA State Income tax, let's assume they move to Texas with a $150k job. That's $13,950 fewer taxes paid on income to CA. Moving to Texas they'll pay about an average $2263 more in property Taxes to TX. Probably a bit more realistically so let's say $4000 since they'll probably be buying property that's above the average price. That's still around a $10k/year raise, with lower cost of living and lower crime, and that's assuming they didn't negotiate a raise which is unlikely.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  Inability of online weirdos to understand marginal tax rates: example ++N. The California state income tax on a gross of $150k would be $10730, not $13950. Furthermore, the deductions come off the top marginal rate, so if you are taking the standard deduction, maxing out your 401(k) contributions etc knock several thousand dollars off that figure.
  - Covzire 3y ago
    Fair enough but that calculus only gets better for moving the higher the salary is, $150k was just a starting point and I believe most experienced devs in the bay area make a lot more then that, are likely to have families in need of stable communities and their spouse's income might double the reason to move, if they have one.
    - jeffbee 3y ago
      A 2-income family with 1-2 experienced devs working at major Bay Area companies could easily make over a million. But that only means they are rich as hell, it doesn't mean they are middle class. Median income in Santa Clara county is $140k so $150k was already a bit high as a starting point for middle class experience. I won't argue that California isn't squeezing out lower incomes. That much is clear. But you're overestimating what that income is. Lower income families leave California because of housing costs, not because of income taxes. The median California household owes < $1000/yr in state income taxes.
- thebradbain 3y ago
  As a Texan who moved and bought a home IN California, you’re forgetting about CA Prop 13 (which has its own giant set of problems)— in California, property taxes are not re-assessed after the purchase of the home. In Texas, they are every year _at market rate_. There was a cap introduced in 2022, but it’s still a cap of 10%/year. In many high demand city neighborhoods, you are indeed seeing property taxes grow at 8-10% year. As far as the $2263-4000 difference in property tax the first year, where are you getting that? Texas’ property rate is about 2.12% of market value, forever (it can be more or less, depending on local programs and school districts, but is usually around there) California’s is 0.77%-1.07% the year you buy and is essentially frozen forever. So a $500k house in TX (which is _no longer_ enough for an in-demand Austin or Dallas neighborhood) will often carry the tax tag of a $1m CA home. An $700-1m house in TX (which _is_ where a home in an in demand Dallas neighborhood begins to start) carries roughly the tax burden of a $1.4-2m CA home. That’s a lot more than people expect! And your payment will be increasing, sometimes significantly, forever!

Covzire 3y ago

Quick napkin math based on simple google searches: Most tech workers will be paying 9.3% in CA State Income tax, let's assume they move to Texas with a $150k job. That's $13,950 fewer taxes paid on income to CA. Moving to Texas they'll pay about an average $2263 more in property Taxes to TX. Probably a bit more realistically so let's say $4000 since they'll probably be buying property that's above the average price. That's still around a $10k/year raise, with lower cost of living and lower crime, and that's assuming they didn't negotiate a raise which is unlikely.

jeffbee 3y ago
Inability of online weirdos to understand marginal tax rates: example ++N. The California state income tax on a gross of $150k would be $10730, not $13950. Furthermore, the deductions come off the top marginal rate, so if you are taking the standard deduction, maxing out your 401(k) contributions etc knock several thousand dollars off that figure.
- Covzire 3y ago
  Fair enough but that calculus only gets better for moving the higher the salary is, $150k was just a starting point and I believe most experienced devs in the bay area make a lot more then that, are likely to have families in need of stable communities and their spouse's income might double the reason to move, if they have one.
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    A 2-income family with 1-2 experienced devs working at major Bay Area companies could easily make over a million. But that only means they are rich as hell, it doesn't mean they are middle class. Median income in Santa Clara county is $140k so $150k was already a bit high as a starting point for middle class experience. I won't argue that California isn't squeezing out lower incomes. That much is clear. But you're overestimating what that income is. Lower income families leave California because of housing costs, not because of income taxes. The median California household owes < $1000/yr in state income taxes.
thebradbain 3y ago
As a Texan who moved and bought a home IN California, you’re forgetting about CA Prop 13 (which has its own giant set of problems)— in California, property taxes are not re-assessed after the purchase of the home. In Texas, they are every year _at market rate_. There was a cap introduced in 2022, but it’s still a cap of 10%/year. In many high demand city neighborhoods, you are indeed seeing property taxes grow at 8-10% year. As far as the $2263-4000 difference in property tax the first year, where are you getting that? Texas’ property rate is about 2.12% of market value, forever (it can be more or less, depending on local programs and school districts, but is usually around there) California’s is 0.77%-1.07% the year you buy and is essentially frozen forever. So a $500k house in TX (which is _no longer_ enough for an in-demand Austin or Dallas neighborhood) will often carry the tax tag of a $1m CA home. An $700-1m house in TX (which _is_ where a home in an in demand Dallas neighborhood begins to start) carries roughly the tax burden of a $1.4-2m CA home. That’s a lot more than people expect! And your payment will be increasing, sometimes significantly, forever!