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I'd be very careful about assuming the legend was made up by Plato just because it's not widely attested in writings of the time. It's likely that most of stor
by emblaegh 3y ago
I'd be very careful about assuming the legend was made up by Plato just because it's not widely attested in writings of the time.
It's likely that most of stories from oral tradition have never been put down to writing, and most of those who did were probably lost through the filter of time (along with the vast majority or ancient Greek literature).
- andsoitis 3y agoWhich do you think is more likely: - Plato conceived of it a as part of an allegory on the hubris of nations, OR - it actually was real and there’s zero evidence for it
- rustymonday 3y agoPlato says that the story is absolutely true multiple times. I don't think we should blame Plato for what may be attributed to our own ignorance.
- empath-nirvana 3y ago"Plato" absolutely does not say the story is true. "Plato" almost never spoke in his dialogues and you can't assume that anything that anyone says in one of his dialogues accords with his own beliefs, although frequently the closest speaker to Plato's beliefs is Socrates. The story of Atlantis is told by Critias, who heard the story second hand.
- suoduandao3 3y agoPlato saying something is absolutely true actually makes me think it's more likely he's talking about an allegory, given his hierarchy of what he considered 'real'.
- emblaegh 3y agoThird option, it was legend going around for generations (with maybe a kernel of truth), that Plato picked to make a point.
- hnfong 3y agoSince you're trying to attribute subjective probabilities to things with "zero evidence", it seems the only disagreement here is about one's priors. You probably think your methodology is "evidence based" though.
- weatherlight 3y agoThere's is evidence for it. (Plato's account) Is it good evidence? that's up for debate clearly. whats strange is that plato's account of Atlantis is detialed with specific measurements and descriptions of the layout of the city, ( and its temples, and the organization of the society.) This level of detail interpreted by some as an attempt to describe a real place rather than a purely symbolic or allegorical one. Unlike other Greek myths (or allegories), the story of atlantis is not populated with gods interfering in the affairs of men, mythical creatures, or heroes of divine descent. Plato didnt have a track record of fabricating tales completely, especially since he presents atlantis in a matter-of-fact way within dialogues that are otherwise serious philosophical texts.
- weatherlight 3y agoalso, if you go and check out Homer's description of Troy, there isn't the level of detail that Plato provides for Atlantis, or at least his understanding of Atlantis. Whether or not Atlantis existed, it would seem to me that at least Plato thought of fit as a real place rather than an allegorical one. Usually when a mythical city is described, the author highlights their mystery, utopian qualities, or moral lessons they impart, rather than providing a blueprint of their layout and structure.
- astrange 3y agoSome people have pointed out that the layout is similar to Syracuse, which Plato had recently been living in.
- d0mine 3y agoThere is a map of Middle-Earth. It doesn't mean the place is real.
- weatherlight 3y agoThe map of middle earth isn't in the middle of a philosophical treatise on understanding the nature of the physical world and the composition of the universe..... :/
- ffgjgf1 3y agoIt’s not unlikely that he based it on some (maybe even commonly know at the time) ancient myth. Plenty of civilizations had flood related ones (and there is some historical basis for it). Of course all the government/society descriptions were invented by him