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I've lived through the transition to systemd. I'm sure sysadmins will be able to manage this one. And I'm sure great technical documentation exists, this was a

I've lived through the transition to systemd. I'm sure sysadmins will be able to manage this one. And I'm sure great technical documentation exists, this was a PR release, not where I'd look for a list of missing features.

jacquesm 3y ago
I still run into trouble on a fairly regular basis on account of systemd. Especially the log files continue to cause all kinds of issues.
- happymellon 3y ago
  What issues do you run into with the log files? I have plenty of ideological problems with the design of the logs, but not actually ran into problems in the real world.
  - djbusby 3y ago
    I'm still mad I can't just `tail -f`
    - eptcyka 3y ago
      journalctl -f?
    - stouset 3y ago
      journalctl -f On the flip side, now you get structured logging, efficiently-searchable logs over any of those fields, the ability to easily aggregate logs from multiple machines, the ability to accurately iterate over logs in processes without missing entries, and on and on and on. Logs as a database is wildly superior to logs as a plain text file, with virtually the only downside being that you need a specific program to tail them.
      - happymellon 3y ago
        > the only downside being that you need a specific program to tail them. The journal can output to text files as well! But this is exactly it, my only issue is the ideological one that there is no spec for the database. The implementation is the specification, so the only true way of building a reader of logs is to implement the journal. There are attempts to document the layout but if there is any difference then you can't submit a bug to get the layout corrected but the implementation isn't wrong. I can think of plenty of other applications with bigger issues than that. But I think can still want the defacto log for Linux to have an official spec.
        stouset 3y ago
        I can totally agree with you there!
  - unaindz 3y ago
    I get hit by this constantly: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2460 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2460
- abofh 3y ago
  Have you tried reading them? They're often helpful

jacquesm 3y ago

I still run into trouble on a fairly regular basis on account of systemd. Especially the log files continue to cause all kinds of issues.

happymellon 3y ago
What issues do you run into with the log files? I have plenty of ideological problems with the design of the logs, but not actually ran into problems in the real world.
- djbusby 3y ago
  I'm still mad I can't just `tail -f`
  - eptcyka 3y ago
    journalctl -f?
  - stouset 3y ago
    journalctl -f On the flip side, now you get structured logging, efficiently-searchable logs over any of those fields, the ability to easily aggregate logs from multiple machines, the ability to accurately iterate over logs in processes without missing entries, and on and on and on. Logs as a database is wildly superior to logs as a plain text file, with virtually the only downside being that you need a specific program to tail them.
    - happymellon 3y ago
      > the only downside being that you need a specific program to tail them. The journal can output to text files as well! But this is exactly it, my only issue is the ideological one that there is no spec for the database. The implementation is the specification, so the only true way of building a reader of logs is to implement the journal. There are attempts to document the layout but if there is any difference then you can't submit a bug to get the layout corrected but the implementation isn't wrong. I can think of plenty of other applications with bigger issues than that. But I think can still want the defacto log for Linux to have an official spec.
      - stouset 3y ago
        I can totally agree with you there!
- unaindz 3y ago
  I get hit by this constantly: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2460 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2460
abofh 3y ago
Have you tried reading them? They're often helpful