4 ms·

There are many timelines without spacex where something like starlink isn’t achieved for many more decades, possibly centuries. Very few thought this was possib

There are many timelines without spacex where something like starlink isn’t achieved for many more decades, possibly centuries. Very few thought this was possible.

mattgibson 3y ago
Given it's already been done before by Iridium [0], it's hard to see how it would take centuries for a more efficient version of the same thing to emerge if Spacex was not around. Especially given the general technology progress since Iridium initially launched. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_satellite_constellation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_satellite_constellatio...
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Starlink is comparable to Iridium if you are discussing ‘internet from the sky’ but the details are more complex.
  - survirtual 3y ago
    They are not comparable. Starlink offers highspeed (actually, not marketing gibberish), low latency internet around the world at a price people can actually afford and without unreasonable datacaps. This is possible because they are mass producing phased array antennas, something that was out of reach of common affordability before Starlink. Starlink is comparable to Iridium like dial-up internet is comparable to fiber. Just go to Iridium's website and try to figure out what they actually sell to anyone who doesn't have elite pockets.
    - Ancalagon 3y ago
      nit: technically the comparison should have been 'Iridium is comparable to Starlink like dial-up is comparable to fiber' You align the element order to what is actually being compared. Just pointing that out for any other non-native English speakers.
    - gamblor956 3y ago
      something that was out of reach of common affordability before Starlink. True, but Starlink isn't what made phased array antennas affordable. The affordability of phased array antennas is what made Starlink financially feasible. When the Iridium constellations were launched in the 1990s, the commercial phased array antennas in use today had not yet been invented. When the second-generation satellites were designed in the 2010s, phase array antennas were not yet commercially available, and did not become commercially available until around the same time that the 2nd-gen satellites were launched.
      - inemesitaffia 3y ago
        There's no phased array antennas anywhere near even today. SpaceX was willing to sink over 3 billion into phased array r&d to make it happen. Also tech from Broadcom and ST Micro
        xondono 3y ago
        > There's no phased array antennas anywhere near even today. Wait what? Where's your source for that? Because phased array antennas were used on lots of 4G networks and are one of the cornerstones of 5G. There where some PAA in deployment when I was in college almost two decades ago.
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      > Just go to Iridium's website and try to figure out what they actually sell to anyone who doesn't have elite pockets. You should check out the proposed pricing for Starlink's maritime and aviation offerings... Marine is a $10K one-time fee plus $5K/month. Aviation, $150K plus $25K/month.
      - inemesitaffia 3y ago
        They are the low cost provider in both markets. I'm sure you can get starlink at sea for around $1k per month
RecycledEle 3y ago
I wonder about a timeline where man is at peace, and develops space travel without the military technology of rockets. JP Aerospace was doing some cool things with Airships to Orbit.(I know that sounds impossible. Check their out-of-date web site for details.) https://www.jpaerospace.com/ https://www.jpaerospace.com/ Some of my students flew sub-orbital space probes with them.
swagempire 3y ago
But why do you even think this is so important -- it achieves nothing we don't already have terrestrially and just pollutes the sky visually (causing problems with ground based telescopes) and pollutes the atmosphere we actually breathe: https://science.slashdot.org/story/23/11/05/0330226/spacecraft-metals-left-in-the-wake-of-humanitys-path-to-the-stars https://science.slashdot.org/story/23/11/05/0330226/spacecra... I can't see any upsides to this venture.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Shipping tracking to reduce black market exchanges and human/drug trafficking. Also, without starlink Ukraine has said they would have been defeated quite quickly. (Ie fighting without a gun). There are many upsides.
  - swagempire 3y ago
    > Shipping tracking to reduce black market exchanges and human/drug trafficking I'm sorry-- what? Surely a totally global satellite network available in remote regions such as mountains and jungles would just be a force multiplier for these kinds of activities. > Also, without starlink Ukraine has said they would have been defeated quite quickly. (Ie fighting without a gun). What? : https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/07/ukraine-starlink-musk-biography/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/07/ukraine... > There are many upsides Please let us know when you've found some.
    - inemesitaffia 3y ago
      Ukraine uses starlink for live artillery correction. The drone operators don't just send coordinates. They send live video. The people firing artillery can see if they hit things live
- panick21_ 3y ago
  Ah so you can attach a cable to a plane? Or a ship? If it achieves nothing, why is there global demand? The simple fact it, it is superior in many ways for a huge number of application and just denying the is never work. As for the 'visual pollution' its mostly just not true. For the waste majority of humans its invisible basically always outside of a few situations. For most terrestrial telescopes it doesn't really matter much. Broad visual surveying telescopes take a slight hit but its not like they will be no longer working. Many of the issues SpaceX has addressed and made the problem way less impactful. Some very sensitive radio telescopes are also slightly effect and having some regulation like we do on earth for electronic devices would make sense. The idea that its some horrible thing just doesn't hold up. The benefits outweigh the cost by a gigantic amount. Starlink is used to give good internet to native Americans who life away from infrastructure. The worth of these things are far, far, far higher then the few 10s of millions we lose in observatory performance.

There are many timelines without spacex where something like starlink isn’t achieved for many more decades, possibly centuries. Very few thought this was possible.

mattgibson 3y ago

Given it's already been done before by Iridium [0], it's hard to see how it would take centuries for a more efficient version of the same thing to emerge if Spacex was not around. Especially given the general technology progress since Iridium initially launched. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_satellite_constellation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_satellite_constellatio...

mensetmanusman 3y ago
Starlink is comparable to Iridium if you are discussing ‘internet from the sky’ but the details are more complex.
- survirtual 3y ago
  They are not comparable. Starlink offers highspeed (actually, not marketing gibberish), low latency internet around the world at a price people can actually afford and without unreasonable datacaps. This is possible because they are mass producing phased array antennas, something that was out of reach of common affordability before Starlink. Starlink is comparable to Iridium like dial-up internet is comparable to fiber. Just go to Iridium's website and try to figure out what they actually sell to anyone who doesn't have elite pockets.
  - Ancalagon 3y ago
    nit: technically the comparison should have been 'Iridium is comparable to Starlink like dial-up is comparable to fiber' You align the element order to what is actually being compared. Just pointing that out for any other non-native English speakers.
  - gamblor956 3y ago
    something that was out of reach of common affordability before Starlink. True, but Starlink isn't what made phased array antennas affordable. The affordability of phased array antennas is what made Starlink financially feasible. When the Iridium constellations were launched in the 1990s, the commercial phased array antennas in use today had not yet been invented. When the second-generation satellites were designed in the 2010s, phase array antennas were not yet commercially available, and did not become commercially available until around the same time that the 2nd-gen satellites were launched.
    - inemesitaffia 3y ago
      There's no phased array antennas anywhere near even today. SpaceX was willing to sink over 3 billion into phased array r&d to make it happen. Also tech from Broadcom and ST Micro
      - xondono 3y ago
        > There's no phased array antennas anywhere near even today. Wait what? Where's your source for that? Because phased array antennas were used on lots of 4G networks and are one of the cornerstones of 5G. There where some PAA in deployment when I was in college almost two decades ago.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    > Just go to Iridium's website and try to figure out what they actually sell to anyone who doesn't have elite pockets. You should check out the proposed pricing for Starlink's maritime and aviation offerings... Marine is a $10K one-time fee plus $5K/month. Aviation, $150K plus $25K/month.
    - inemesitaffia 3y ago
      They are the low cost provider in both markets. I'm sure you can get starlink at sea for around $1k per month

RecycledEle 3y ago

I wonder about a timeline where man is at peace, and develops space travel without the military technology of rockets. JP Aerospace was doing some cool things with Airships to Orbit.(I know that sounds impossible. Check their out-of-date web site for details.) https://www.jpaerospace.com/ https://www.jpaerospace.com/ Some of my students flew sub-orbital space probes with them.

swagempire 3y ago

But why do you even think this is so important -- it achieves nothing we don't already have terrestrially and just pollutes the sky visually (causing problems with ground based telescopes) and pollutes the atmosphere we actually breathe: https://science.slashdot.org/story/23/11/05/0330226/spacecraft-metals-left-in-the-wake-of-humanitys-path-to-the-stars https://science.slashdot.org/story/23/11/05/0330226/spacecra... I can't see any upsides to this venture.

mensetmanusman 3y ago
Shipping tracking to reduce black market exchanges and human/drug trafficking. Also, without starlink Ukraine has said they would have been defeated quite quickly. (Ie fighting without a gun). There are many upsides.
- swagempire 3y ago
  > Shipping tracking to reduce black market exchanges and human/drug trafficking I'm sorry-- what? Surely a totally global satellite network available in remote regions such as mountains and jungles would just be a force multiplier for these kinds of activities. > Also, without starlink Ukraine has said they would have been defeated quite quickly. (Ie fighting without a gun). What? : https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/07/ukraine-starlink-musk-biography/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/07/ukraine... > There are many upsides Please let us know when you've found some.
  - inemesitaffia 3y ago
    Ukraine uses starlink for live artillery correction. The drone operators don't just send coordinates. They send live video. The people firing artillery can see if they hit things live
panick21_ 3y ago
Ah so you can attach a cable to a plane? Or a ship? If it achieves nothing, why is there global demand? The simple fact it, it is superior in many ways for a huge number of application and just denying the is never work. As for the 'visual pollution' its mostly just not true. For the waste majority of humans its invisible basically always outside of a few situations. For most terrestrial telescopes it doesn't really matter much. Broad visual surveying telescopes take a slight hit but its not like they will be no longer working. Many of the issues SpaceX has addressed and made the problem way less impactful. Some very sensitive radio telescopes are also slightly effect and having some regulation like we do on earth for electronic devices would make sense. The idea that its some horrible thing just doesn't hold up. The benefits outweigh the cost by a gigantic amount. Starlink is used to give good internet to native Americans who life away from infrastructure. The worth of these things are far, far, far higher then the few 10s of millions we lose in observatory performance.