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Many wise words here, especially about seeing dysfunctional institutions for what they are without taking it personally when your get your fingers crushed by th

Many wise words here, especially about seeing dysfunctional institutions for what they are without taking it personally when your get your fingers crushed by the machine. Unhealthy though bitterness is, it's sometimes an engine in great achievements. Roger Waters could not have written "The Wall" if his teachers had all been lovely.

sublinear 3y ago
Are they really dysfunctional though? If these institutions are the best we have, then by definition they are not dysfunctional until something better comes along. I feel like most bitter people lack the understanding to be that genius who makes a difference. Those who are usually conformed first and become a revolutionary later when they were ready. What I tend to see are desperate people playing the lottery with their beliefs and just following whatever negativity is trending because it seems better than doing nothing. The vast majority of reddit is like this for example.
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  > Are they really dysfunctional though? I believe they objectively are, yes. And for many reasons, all of which must be seen contextually in the frame of history. They're not the best we've had, as a measurable fact or certainly a verifiable/pollable mass opinion. Staffing levels of institutions has fallen. Spending on public institutions has fallen, and therefore the quality of personnel. Many have moved their functions into the private sector. Trust in institutions has fallen. Effectiveness of institutions has fallen. Many institutional buildings are decrepit. Morale is low. Of course the strength of institutions rises and falls through history, and some transform or vanish completely. At one time the universities all but disappeared from Europe (save for strongholds in Paris, Bologna, Oxford and Cambridge), only to appear again, vibrant after the Middle Ages. I think they are going through a new crisis right now, one that originates within. > If these institutions are the best we have, then by definition they are not dysfunctional That logic seems wonky to me. Currently institutions don't meet the needs of a the complex society we have, and there are obvious consequences in poor or inequitable healthcare, education, policing, defence, environmental management... FWIW I'm a big believer in strong public institutions and hope to see many restored to integrity, maybe even within my lifetime.
  - saghm 3y ago
    > They're not the best we've had, as a measurable fact or certainly a verifiable/pollable mass opinion. I don't necessarily disagree, but "mass opinion" being lower could be due to standards changing. What exactly is your "measure" here for a "measurable fact"?
nikita2206 3y ago
The world would not have needed The Wall if /all/ teachers had been lovely!
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  Well, I guess "The Wall" is about a few things; overbearing mothers, boarding school abuse, war trauma, fascism, loneliness and isolation, the purpose of art. I think we can only pin _some_ of that on rotten teachers. :) That album art image burned into most people's minds is Gerald Scarfe's scowling teacher - the one screaming "You.. behind the bike sheds...!!!!" Terrifying.

sublinear 3y ago

Are they really dysfunctional though? If these institutions are the best we have, then by definition they are not dysfunctional until something better comes along. I feel like most bitter people lack the understanding to be that genius who makes a difference. Those who are usually conformed first and become a revolutionary later when they were ready. What I tend to see are desperate people playing the lottery with their beliefs and just following whatever negativity is trending because it seems better than doing nothing. The vast majority of reddit is like this for example.

nonrandomstring 3y ago
> Are they really dysfunctional though? I believe they objectively are, yes. And for many reasons, all of which must be seen contextually in the frame of history. They're not the best we've had, as a measurable fact or certainly a verifiable/pollable mass opinion. Staffing levels of institutions has fallen. Spending on public institutions has fallen, and therefore the quality of personnel. Many have moved their functions into the private sector. Trust in institutions has fallen. Effectiveness of institutions has fallen. Many institutional buildings are decrepit. Morale is low. Of course the strength of institutions rises and falls through history, and some transform or vanish completely. At one time the universities all but disappeared from Europe (save for strongholds in Paris, Bologna, Oxford and Cambridge), only to appear again, vibrant after the Middle Ages. I think they are going through a new crisis right now, one that originates within. > If these institutions are the best we have, then by definition they are not dysfunctional That logic seems wonky to me. Currently institutions don't meet the needs of a the complex society we have, and there are obvious consequences in poor or inequitable healthcare, education, policing, defence, environmental management... FWIW I'm a big believer in strong public institutions and hope to see many restored to integrity, maybe even within my lifetime.
- saghm 3y ago
  > They're not the best we've had, as a measurable fact or certainly a verifiable/pollable mass opinion. I don't necessarily disagree, but "mass opinion" being lower could be due to standards changing. What exactly is your "measure" here for a "measurable fact"?

nikita2206 3y ago

The world would not have needed The Wall if /all/ teachers had been lovely!

nonrandomstring 3y ago
Well, I guess "The Wall" is about a few things; overbearing mothers, boarding school abuse, war trauma, fascism, loneliness and isolation, the purpose of art. I think we can only pin _some_ of that on rotten teachers. :) That album art image burned into most people's minds is Gerald Scarfe's scowling teacher - the one screaming "You.. behind the bike sheds...!!!!" Terrifying.