5 ms·

What kind of budget you have? 25k euro is a pretty good price range for a small electric car, maybe you're better suited looking for second-hand cars.

raxxorraxor 3y ago
Electric vehicles will succeed or fail with how they can establish themselves on a second hand market. I would have the budget for such a price, but I certainly wouldn't want to pay it. For official business there are company cars and I drive perhaps 5000 km per year. I still have a car and I need it to visit some more remote people and for convenience. Paid 2.5k for it and I have it since a few years. I do have a mechanic, so repairs are cheap, but you can guess about my expectations for buying the next car. Haven't seen EV with attractive prices yet.
- mattmanser 3y ago
  Do you mean particular brands? Electric cars in general will be the only option. The big countries in the EU are banning selling new petrol cars in 2035. So they'll definitely succeed, there's no option!
  - lmm 3y ago
    Or people will stop driving. Or those deadlines will get pushed back.
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      Given how many locations depend on having car available and public transport offerings are a joke even in Europe, I am more going into the deadlines being pushed back scenario. Not everyone is living in Amsterdam, Berlin, London,... city center.
      - soco 3y ago
        Here in the Swiss countryside public transport is okay, at least to my tastes (I know I criticize sometimes but only first world problems). So if those other countries need a working model, here we are waving at them...
        pjmlp 3y ago
        Sure, if they also manage to have Swiss income and life quality in first place. I lived there for a couple of years during my CERN days.
- vasdae 3y ago
  >Electric vehicles will succeed or fail with how they can establish themselves on a second hand market. They will "succeed" because the government will force us to use them. It's us citizens who will succeed or fail to have freedom to move, depending on how wealthy we are ;)
- jillesvangurp 3y ago
  It will come. The "problem" with EVs is that they retain their value much longer. Which is factored into their second hand value. Second hand ICE cars are cheap because they start having lots of issues when they get older and the risk of them needing some maintenance that exceeds the purchase price gets higher and higher. If you buy a ten year old Nissan Leaf for, it will still be quite usable and be desirable enough that people are willing to pay a lot more than 2.5K for it. And if the time comes, you can put a new battery in it for 4-5K or so and drive it for another decade+. And of course there aren't that many EVs that old around to begin with because the market was relatively new and small ten years ago. Most EVs on the road are probably younger than 3 years or so. They'll be on the road for a long time and might change owner a lot. But it will take some time to trickle down.
jacquesm 3y ago
ICE based small cars sell for about 10K less. Second hand electric cars are still few and far between. Here is a Nissan Leaf from 2011 for 5K: https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/auto-s/nissan/m2041841167-nissan-leaf-base-24-kwh-nl-auto-nap https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/auto-s/nissan/m2041841167-nissa... There is no mention of remaining battery capacity, only the original is listed. For that kind of money you can fairly easily find a Renault, Skoda or if you're lucky a VW with lower mileage and probably a newer model year.
dathinab 3y ago
good price range for a new car, yes But also more then what a good part of the population is willing to afford to pay for a car. Weather hear or in the US a lot of people buy second,third,fourth hand. And that's a problem I think massively underestimated, a least currently electric cars are kinda badly suited for being resold, especially if they come from companies with pretty bad service/walled garden reputation like Tesla.
yulaow 3y ago
25k is quite a lot for many average salaried people in Europe, indeed the step bump of price (almost 2x in 10 years) of non-electric cars already put the eu market in a dire position where most people are not able to replace their car anymore and keep using very old cars with very high pollution outputs
- wiz21c 3y ago
  That's exactly my point. Thanks for putting it down in words :-) A car is not a luxury good: it's something I buy because I have to. I'll go Dacia this time.
ricardobayes 3y ago
Well, the average salary across the EU is 27K EUR, so 25K is arguably still pretty much, in the grand scheme of things.

raxxorraxor 3y ago

Electric vehicles will succeed or fail with how they can establish themselves on a second hand market. I would have the budget for such a price, but I certainly wouldn't want to pay it. For official business there are company cars and I drive perhaps 5000 km per year. I still have a car and I need it to visit some more remote people and for convenience. Paid 2.5k for it and I have it since a few years. I do have a mechanic, so repairs are cheap, but you can guess about my expectations for buying the next car. Haven't seen EV with attractive prices yet.

mattmanser 3y ago
Do you mean particular brands? Electric cars in general will be the only option. The big countries in the EU are banning selling new petrol cars in 2035. So they'll definitely succeed, there's no option!
- lmm 3y ago
  Or people will stop driving. Or those deadlines will get pushed back.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Given how many locations depend on having car available and public transport offerings are a joke even in Europe, I am more going into the deadlines being pushed back scenario. Not everyone is living in Amsterdam, Berlin, London,... city center.
    - soco 3y ago
      Here in the Swiss countryside public transport is okay, at least to my tastes (I know I criticize sometimes but only first world problems). So if those other countries need a working model, here we are waving at them...
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        Sure, if they also manage to have Swiss income and life quality in first place. I lived there for a couple of years during my CERN days.
vasdae 3y ago
>Electric vehicles will succeed or fail with how they can establish themselves on a second hand market. They will "succeed" because the government will force us to use them. It's us citizens who will succeed or fail to have freedom to move, depending on how wealthy we are ;)
jillesvangurp 3y ago
It will come. The "problem" with EVs is that they retain their value much longer. Which is factored into their second hand value. Second hand ICE cars are cheap because they start having lots of issues when they get older and the risk of them needing some maintenance that exceeds the purchase price gets higher and higher. If you buy a ten year old Nissan Leaf for, it will still be quite usable and be desirable enough that people are willing to pay a lot more than 2.5K for it. And if the time comes, you can put a new battery in it for 4-5K or so and drive it for another decade+. And of course there aren't that many EVs that old around to begin with because the market was relatively new and small ten years ago. Most EVs on the road are probably younger than 3 years or so. They'll be on the road for a long time and might change owner a lot. But it will take some time to trickle down.

jacquesm 3y ago

ICE based small cars sell for about 10K less. Second hand electric cars are still few and far between. Here is a Nissan Leaf from 2011 for 5K: https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/auto-s/nissan/m2041841167-nissan-leaf-base-24-kwh-nl-auto-nap https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/auto-s/nissan/m2041841167-nissa... There is no mention of remaining battery capacity, only the original is listed. For that kind of money you can fairly easily find a Renault, Skoda or if you're lucky a VW with lower mileage and probably a newer model year.

dathinab 3y ago

good price range for a new car, yes But also more then what a good part of the population is willing to afford to pay for a car. Weather hear or in the US a lot of people buy second,third,fourth hand. And that's a problem I think massively underestimated, a least currently electric cars are kinda badly suited for being resold, especially if they come from companies with pretty bad service/walled garden reputation like Tesla.

yulaow 3y ago

25k is quite a lot for many average salaried people in Europe, indeed the step bump of price (almost 2x in 10 years) of non-electric cars already put the eu market in a dire position where most people are not able to replace their car anymore and keep using very old cars with very high pollution outputs

wiz21c 3y ago
That's exactly my point. Thanks for putting it down in words :-) A car is not a luxury good: it's something I buy because I have to. I'll go Dacia this time.

ricardobayes 3y ago

Well, the average salary across the EU is 27K EUR, so 25K is arguably still pretty much, in the grand scheme of things.