4 ms·

ApeFest attendees report 'extreme pain' and vision problems after event

31 points by _Microft 3y ago

gmerc 3y ago
Ah yea the crowd with a deep love for regulation not liking people skirting health and safety regulation. How quaint.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  Venture backed NFT collectible crowd is not that crowd Nice try
  - 3bh38dug 3y ago
    All cryptobros buy into the ancap rhetoric, to some extent. Nice try.
    - saurik 3y ago
      Maybe some of the rhetoric as a form of identify cosplay, but the image art NFT crowd is heavily reliant on the most extreme usage of copyright laws and are often seen advocating for not merely grotesque application of digital rights management but extending the law to prevent their images from being used without payment.
      - yieldcrv 3y ago
        yeah the art NFT crowd is its own gradient of personalities. there absolutely are many well funded collectors that do not understand what they bought and what’s supposed to be interesting about it. they actually are offended when you right click and save the image displayed by their NFT. they should be ignored.
_Microft 3y ago
Here's a link to the WP article of the condition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photokeratitis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photokeratitis
OliveMate 3y ago
Being subject to such UV lights without my knowledge and waking up in the dead of night to my eyes burning is a new fear I'd never expect to develop. A nice reminder of how important combating negligence is.
- csomar 3y ago
  I've always thought about it as a potential terrorist attack vector. It can be done remotely (from afar) and your target is unlikely to understand what's happening (vs. say a stabbing event). It might be because terrorist events are about spreading the terror more than the damage itself. Still, it is a worrying thought that you could be walking the metro one day and an evil person can decide to end your sight.
  - rchaud 3y ago
    Like you said, terrorist attacks aren't subtle, they're designed to kill to incite a political response. This type of non-lethal but injurious approach would be more likely the work of solo psychopaths, the type that try to go undetected.
- Kye 3y ago
  It's hard to over-state the value and importance of a good A/V crew. They'll keep your speakers from blowing up (or cancelling each other) and, apparently, protect your corneas.
raxxorraxor 3y ago
> Philips TUV 30W G30 T8 light bulbs, which, according to Philip’s website, emit 12 watts of UV-C radiation, mainly used for disinfecting surfaces. 12 watts optical power is a lot. A lot more powerful than lights you need eye protection for. Even if you don't have symptoms, you shouldn't look at such a light source too often. It probably also emits UV-A and UV-B light, even when light sources often peak at very specific wavelengths. Still, you would probably also get brown skin from that and even a few hours would be noticable.
- quantified 3y ago
  What was the intended purpose? Blacklights?
  - jmopp 3y ago
    My first guess would be to help disinfect the air. UV-C light is pretty good at killing bacteria and viruses. Though they evidently didn't realise it can also kill your corneas.
  - raxxorraxor 3y ago
    That was probably the intent. AFAIK Blacklights usually use UV-A lighting though. It should be said, that UVA-A penetrates much deeper into the skin. You won't get sunburn from it, but it still can be damaging to cells. It was previously thought UV-A would not be damaging, as the skin doesn't seem to be as photosensitive to it compared to UV-B or UV-C radiation, which results in red or brown skin. But newer studies suggest that the danger was underestimated. The cell damage just isn't as visible. I don't believe the usual blacklight you find in a party cellar has the intensity to cause any damage though, but you may want to ask a dermatologist. You really need to be careful with dosage of light in all these wavelengths.
dwroberts 3y ago
BigClive has some interesting videos on these kinds of lights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m0TQjBRcFo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m0TQjBRcFo He also works in events/lighting and has mentioned the risk of events inadvertently sourcing 'cool-looking' lights without understanding what they actually are (germicidal UV lights)
aaron695 3y ago
I do wonder about lasers, removing the protection used to reduce the cost. There were stories of blindness but they seem to have disappeared, maybe they were never true - https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14310-party-laser-blinds-russian-ravers/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14310-party-laser-bli... (Party laser 'blinds' Russian ravers) Reported specs from ApeFest here - https://www.bulbs.com/product/TUV30T8-G30T8 https://www.bulbs.com/product/TUV30T8-G30T8 (Same wavelength as a SteriPEN) Philips Sterilamp® brand T8 germicidal fluorescent lamp. 30 Watts and 36" for use in germicidal sterilization applications. Produces UVC radiation. CAUTION: can be very harmful to eyes and skin. DO NOT expose eyes or unprotected skin to these lamps. SERIOUS injury and blindness could result. They were popular during covid. It's undecided how well they worked - DOI:10.1111/php.13418 (Fully exposed in rooms when unoccupied, also a not visible bulb always on)
- fensgrim 3y ago
  That specific blindness story was debunked later on (~month past initial report); something about having only a single unnamed source touting that story to multiple newspapers. As a russian rave goer: my deepest thanks to aliexpress providing lots of reliable UV LED sources, X-Y lasers etc. It really keeps the (insane) DIY at bay. > they were popular during covid They were popular long before covid: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarzlampe https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarzlampe TL;DR: invented in Germany, 1906; introduced as a nationwide cure for rickets in German children in 1920; adopted by soviet medicide nationwide in 1950s and never really went away As for covid, it did trigger a number of insane DIY projects involving UV light sources; I like this one in particular - https://youtu.be/nFSkBsKAH-A?si=SLgdtdvLcNN-sTs0&t=187 https://youtu.be/nFSkBsKAH-A?si=SLgdtdvLcNN-sTs0&t=187 (yep, that's a 125W streetlight mercury vapor lamp being stripped down into a hard UV hazard.. These go as far as 1000W, though 125W variation is most common and easily obtainable, at cost of $5 per lamp, and ~$30 on spare parts to get it up and running)
Kye 3y ago
That's a gaffing gaffe.
LiquidSky 3y ago
At least they won’t have to look at those awful things anymore.

31 points by _Microft 3y ago

gmerc 3y ago

Ah yea the crowd with a deep love for regulation not liking people skirting health and safety regulation. How quaint.

yieldcrv 3y ago
Venture backed NFT collectible crowd is not that crowd Nice try
- 3bh38dug 3y ago
  All cryptobros buy into the ancap rhetoric, to some extent. Nice try.
  - saurik 3y ago
    Maybe some of the rhetoric as a form of identify cosplay, but the image art NFT crowd is heavily reliant on the most extreme usage of copyright laws and are often seen advocating for not merely grotesque application of digital rights management but extending the law to prevent their images from being used without payment.
    - yieldcrv 3y ago
      yeah the art NFT crowd is its own gradient of personalities. there absolutely are many well funded collectors that do not understand what they bought and what’s supposed to be interesting about it. they actually are offended when you right click and save the image displayed by their NFT. they should be ignored.

_Microft 3y ago

Here's a link to the WP article of the condition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photokeratitis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photokeratitis

OliveMate 3y ago

Being subject to such UV lights without my knowledge and waking up in the dead of night to my eyes burning is a new fear I'd never expect to develop. A nice reminder of how important combating negligence is.

csomar 3y ago
I've always thought about it as a potential terrorist attack vector. It can be done remotely (from afar) and your target is unlikely to understand what's happening (vs. say a stabbing event). It might be because terrorist events are about spreading the terror more than the damage itself. Still, it is a worrying thought that you could be walking the metro one day and an evil person can decide to end your sight.
- rchaud 3y ago
  Like you said, terrorist attacks aren't subtle, they're designed to kill to incite a political response. This type of non-lethal but injurious approach would be more likely the work of solo psychopaths, the type that try to go undetected.
Kye 3y ago
It's hard to over-state the value and importance of a good A/V crew. They'll keep your speakers from blowing up (or cancelling each other) and, apparently, protect your corneas.

raxxorraxor 3y ago

> Philips TUV 30W G30 T8 light bulbs, which, according to Philip’s website, emit 12 watts of UV-C radiation, mainly used for disinfecting surfaces. 12 watts optical power is a lot. A lot more powerful than lights you need eye protection for. Even if you don't have symptoms, you shouldn't look at such a light source too often. It probably also emits UV-A and UV-B light, even when light sources often peak at very specific wavelengths. Still, you would probably also get brown skin from that and even a few hours would be noticable.

quantified 3y ago
What was the intended purpose? Blacklights?
- jmopp 3y ago
  My first guess would be to help disinfect the air. UV-C light is pretty good at killing bacteria and viruses. Though they evidently didn't realise it can also kill your corneas.
- raxxorraxor 3y ago
  That was probably the intent. AFAIK Blacklights usually use UV-A lighting though. It should be said, that UVA-A penetrates much deeper into the skin. You won't get sunburn from it, but it still can be damaging to cells. It was previously thought UV-A would not be damaging, as the skin doesn't seem to be as photosensitive to it compared to UV-B or UV-C radiation, which results in red or brown skin. But newer studies suggest that the danger was underestimated. The cell damage just isn't as visible. I don't believe the usual blacklight you find in a party cellar has the intensity to cause any damage though, but you may want to ask a dermatologist. You really need to be careful with dosage of light in all these wavelengths.

dwroberts 3y ago

BigClive has some interesting videos on these kinds of lights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m0TQjBRcFo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m0TQjBRcFo He also works in events/lighting and has mentioned the risk of events inadvertently sourcing 'cool-looking' lights without understanding what they actually are (germicidal UV lights)

aaron695 3y ago

I do wonder about lasers, removing the protection used to reduce the cost. There were stories of blindness but they seem to have disappeared, maybe they were never true - https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14310-party-laser-blinds-russian-ravers/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14310-party-laser-bli... (Party laser 'blinds' Russian ravers) Reported specs from ApeFest here - https://www.bulbs.com/product/TUV30T8-G30T8 https://www.bulbs.com/product/TUV30T8-G30T8 (Same wavelength as a SteriPEN) Philips Sterilamp® brand T8 germicidal fluorescent lamp. 30 Watts and 36" for use in germicidal sterilization applications. Produces UVC radiation. CAUTION: can be very harmful to eyes and skin. DO NOT expose eyes or unprotected skin to these lamps. SERIOUS injury and blindness could result. They were popular during covid. It's undecided how well they worked - DOI:10.1111/php.13418 (Fully exposed in rooms when unoccupied, also a not visible bulb always on)

fensgrim 3y ago
That specific blindness story was debunked later on (~month past initial report); something about having only a single unnamed source touting that story to multiple newspapers. As a russian rave goer: my deepest thanks to aliexpress providing lots of reliable UV LED sources, X-Y lasers etc. It really keeps the (insane) DIY at bay. > they were popular during covid They were popular long before covid: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarzlampe https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarzlampe TL;DR: invented in Germany, 1906; introduced as a nationwide cure for rickets in German children in 1920; adopted by soviet medicide nationwide in 1950s and never really went away As for covid, it did trigger a number of insane DIY projects involving UV light sources; I like this one in particular - https://youtu.be/nFSkBsKAH-A?si=SLgdtdvLcNN-sTs0&t=187 https://youtu.be/nFSkBsKAH-A?si=SLgdtdvLcNN-sTs0&t=187 (yep, that's a 125W streetlight mercury vapor lamp being stripped down into a hard UV hazard.. These go as far as 1000W, though 125W variation is most common and easily obtainable, at cost of $5 per lamp, and ~$30 on spare parts to get it up and running)

Kye 3y ago

That's a gaffing gaffe.

LiquidSky 3y ago

At least they won’t have to look at those awful things anymore.