4 ms·

- How can you have a functioning community where noone contributes anything? How would that people make money?

by t0bia_s 3y ago

em-bee 3y ago
how was money invented? as i said: taxes need not be only money but could be some other form of contribution
- t0bia_s 3y ago
  Ah yes, but that is huge difference. Supporting private businesses that makes sense (free market) sounds more effective for me than collecting taxes and distribute it by centralised power. Decentralisation of financial system is a way that could fix many inequalities in society.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    the problem is that this is not an exclusive either taxes or free market question. also taxes are simply mandatory contributions. that doesn't require a centralized power. but they are not a free market either. the examples i gave can not be solved in a free market. there are more: access to water in areas where i can't dig my own well (or where uncontrolled water use causes problems). solving this with a free market inevitably means that there will be some people who won't have access to water because connecting them is to expensive. we see this problem now with access to internet in rural areas. pretty soon access to internet will be required, and that means, we as a community have to pay for it to enable everyone to get access to it. another good example to look at is waste removal. while waste removal can be done trough private businesses and paid by the amount of waste you have, in cities it must be mandatory, because if it is not, then some people will simply throw the trash into the street. if it is mandatory, it is no longer a free market. but rather similar to taxes. but without a central power.
    - t0bia_s 3y ago
      Where there is demand, there is supply. Price, that is not shaped or regulated by central authority, evolves with possibilities. Why would anyone throw trash on street, with full of bins? Mandate usualy change human behavior in opposite direction.
      - em-bee 3y ago
        this is evolving into an argument about the efficiency of the free market, which i am not interested in. there is plenty of evidence that the completely unregulated free market doesn't work, because for example it favors services that are profitable. Why would anyone throw trash on street because it is to expensive to pay for someone to clean it up.
        t0bia_s 3y ago
        Believe or not, not all businesses are interested in to maximalism of profit. At the end, regulations are shaped by lobby. Otherwise we wouldn't drive and buy heavier cars every year and at same time care about co2 consumption for example. - because it is to expensive to pay for someone to clean it up. Isn't that one of reasons to throw it in to bin instead?
        em-bee 3y ago
        Believe or not, not all businesses are interested in to maximalism of profit that's easy to disprove. there are businesses that do not care about maximizing profit, but have other goals. (look up b-corp for one form of that. in my own business the goal is to maximize the number of jobs that i can create) regulations are shaped by lobby which is really bad, because it means those who are the loudest get their way and everyone else suffers. throw it into trash bins? and who empties the trash bins? the point you are missing is that if noone pays for trash removal then trash doesn't get removed. so either everyone pays for their own, or the community collects money and everyone contributes to that. there is no way around that.

- How can you have a functioning community where noone contributes anything? How would that people make money?

em-bee 3y ago

how was money invented? as i said: taxes need not be only money but could be some other form of contribution

t0bia_s 3y ago
Ah yes, but that is huge difference. Supporting private businesses that makes sense (free market) sounds more effective for me than collecting taxes and distribute it by centralised power. Decentralisation of financial system is a way that could fix many inequalities in society.
- em-bee 3y ago
  the problem is that this is not an exclusive either taxes or free market question. also taxes are simply mandatory contributions. that doesn't require a centralized power. but they are not a free market either. the examples i gave can not be solved in a free market. there are more: access to water in areas where i can't dig my own well (or where uncontrolled water use causes problems). solving this with a free market inevitably means that there will be some people who won't have access to water because connecting them is to expensive. we see this problem now with access to internet in rural areas. pretty soon access to internet will be required, and that means, we as a community have to pay for it to enable everyone to get access to it. another good example to look at is waste removal. while waste removal can be done trough private businesses and paid by the amount of waste you have, in cities it must be mandatory, because if it is not, then some people will simply throw the trash into the street. if it is mandatory, it is no longer a free market. but rather similar to taxes. but without a central power.
  - t0bia_s 3y ago
    Where there is demand, there is supply. Price, that is not shaped or regulated by central authority, evolves with possibilities. Why would anyone throw trash on street, with full of bins? Mandate usualy change human behavior in opposite direction.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      this is evolving into an argument about the efficiency of the free market, which i am not interested in. there is plenty of evidence that the completely unregulated free market doesn't work, because for example it favors services that are profitable. Why would anyone throw trash on street because it is to expensive to pay for someone to clean it up.
      - t0bia_s 3y ago
        Believe or not, not all businesses are interested in to maximalism of profit. At the end, regulations are shaped by lobby. Otherwise we wouldn't drive and buy heavier cars every year and at same time care about co2 consumption for example. - because it is to expensive to pay for someone to clean it up. Isn't that one of reasons to throw it in to bin instead?
        em-bee 3y ago
        Believe or not, not all businesses are interested in to maximalism of profit that's easy to disprove. there are businesses that do not care about maximizing profit, but have other goals. (look up b-corp for one form of that. in my own business the goal is to maximize the number of jobs that i can create) regulations are shaped by lobby which is really bad, because it means those who are the loudest get their way and everyone else suffers. throw it into trash bins? and who empties the trash bins? the point you are missing is that if noone pays for trash removal then trash doesn't get removed. so either everyone pays for their own, or the community collects money and everyone contributes to that. there is no way around that.