4 ms·

> ADHD is sometimes wittily described as time dyslexia As someone with ADHD, this wildly misrepresents the actual disorder. ADHD itself has nothing to do with

> ADHD is sometimes wittily described as time dyslexia As someone with ADHD, this wildly misrepresents the actual disorder. ADHD itself has nothing to do with time, it has to do with executive function. Someone with ADHD can try to will themselves into doing something and simply not be able to. They'll try to make a command, and their body or brain will not listen to them. It will completely refuse to do what they tell it to. This isn't supposed to happen; you're supposed to have control over what you do. You are supposed to be able to decide to do something, get up and simply do it. But with ADHD, it's not that simple. Even things that require no physical action are difficult, because it's not the actual movement that's hard, it's the decision-making itself. Hence "executive dysfunction". Any "time dyslexia" effect, wrt scheduling and deadlines and etcetara, is just a symptom of it. The reason why people with ADHD procrastinate is not: - because they don't know what time it is. - because they don't know when their deadline is. - because they don't know how much time they have. - because they don't know how much time they need. - because they don't know how easy or hard the task is. It is because their brain wants to do something else more, and it's not urgent yet. They absolutely cannot work on the task no matter how hard they try. They have not forgotten. They are not slacking off. They literally just can't do it. Their brain refuses to think about it, their body refuses to move for it. They don't have the willpower or the motivation for it. They are trapped. They are completely unable to make any progress because their brain will not let them. That's what ADHD is. Not everyone has it this bad, but ADHD is typically characterized by this happening for at least some things. It could be "showering more than once a week", it could be "doing the dishes before 20 of them have piled up in a big stack", it could be "preparing for a road trip days in advance". It doesn't have to be everything, and it doesn't have to be completely insurmountable, but if you have to have a complicated coping mechanism in order to manage to do something that you otherwise can't just decide to do, that's the disorder.

throwaway47bs6 3y ago
Ahem. That's what yours is. Mine is straight-up time defiance. I stopped caring about clocks and deadlines. You speak for yourself: attentional difference is a cluster, not a fixed set of symptoms and behaviours. Another example, I'm not short of motivation. It's just there are so many interesting things to work on.
- LoganDark 3y ago
  > That's what yours is. No, it's not just what mine is. It agrees with the clinical definition of ADHD, with the experiences of all who I have spoken to about it, including many friends, with multiple[0] articles[1] describing[2] the disorder[3], and so on. Your time defiance is a symptom of a deeper problem. While I can't guarantee it's the exact same problem that I have, your disorder is certainly not just "time defiance", and if it truly is ADHD, the root of it will be executive dysfunction, as that is what defines the disorder. [0]: https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html [1]: https://cohost.org/cathoderaydude/post/862603-when-writing-about-t https://cohost.org/cathoderaydude/post/862603-when-writing-a... [2]: https://invisibleup.com/articles/27/ https://invisibleup.com/articles/27/ [3]: https://www.autostraddle.com/you-need-help-your-adhd-is-fcking-up-your-focus-272786/ https://www.autostraddle.com/you-need-help-your-adhd-is-fcki... > For example, I'm not short of motivation. It's just there are so many interesting things to work on. I could say the same thing. But I can't choose which thing I work on. I want to draw. I want to code. I have hundreds of unfinished projects I could have finished. I have hundreds of abandoned hobbies I could have stayed with. Sure I have "motivation", but it's motivation to do whatever catches my interest at the moment, not motivation to do any of the things that I actually want to do.
  - throwaway47bs6 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - LoganDark 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - throwaway47bs6 3y ago
        [flagged]
        LoganDark 3y ago
        > Ah-hah, so you're a patronising twit to boot, and a credulous one. > I guarantee DSM VI will be different. I sure hope it is. Right now they don't have great coverage of dissociative disorders yet. As for the rest of your comment, I don't see any point in continuing this discussion.
reitanqild 3y ago
I realize my comment above can be read as "time dyslexia is the whole problem with ADHD" and that was not my intention. Thanks for your perspective! I also totally agree that ADHD-ers know what time is. That said, ADHD is a thing I have to deal with and for me and a number of those I know who have ADHD, "time dyslexia" is a very good explanation for a subset of the problems we observe. > They absolutely cannot work on the task no matter how hard they try. They have not forgotten. They are not slacking off. They literally just can't do it. Their brain refuses to think about it, their body refuses to move for it. They don't have the willpower or the motivation for it. They are trapped. They are completely unable to make any progress because their brain will not let them. Here it is you who are taking agency away from ADHD-ers. Many can, it just takes a lot more effort than for other students/workers. Things I have seen working: - restricting oneself heavily so that the work at hand becomes the only possible thing to do - conjuring up reasons why something is intersting - pair programming - various ways of sneaking up to the subject (start by fixing a few small issues, them improve a unit test, then make a small prototype, then take a look at the actual problem in question) - gamification - etc
- LoganDark 3y ago
  > Here it is you who are taking agency away from ADHD-ers. What do you mean? All the mechanisms you've listed can be ways to help, yes, but you still can't just decide to do those things. You can try to reformat it or place it in some other context where it becomes doable, but these are specific coping mechanisms that shouldn't always be necessary, like they are for someone with severe enough ADHD. I apologize for implying that all ADHD is that severe, I'll see if I can edit it to be more clear there, but I'm not trying to take agency away; I'm trying to point out how it results in that "time dyslexia", and why it's a disorder (rather than just, say, laziness).
  - reitanqild 3y ago
    > You can try to reformat it or place it in some other context where it becomes doable, but these are specific coping mechanisms that shouldn't always be necessary, like they are for someone with severe enough ADHD OK, I see, I think we agree very much here.
devbent 3y ago
Random question, Do all of you have ADHD? If not, that would be... Surprisingly I guess but also kind of hopeful.
- LoganDark 3y ago
  Do you mean all of my dissociative identities? The answer is yes. DID can result in individual identities having different access to certain parts of the brain (for example, certain identities could have aphantasia while others have vivid imaginations), but as far as I'm aware, ADHD is a problem with the brain's reward system itself (the one that has to do with dopamine), so it affects the entire brain function, no matter which part. However, I've been in situations where different identities can do things that I can't (i.e. switch in order to get out of bed in the morning), so I don't think anything is necessarily set in stone...
  - reitanqild 3y ago
    Hi again, and thanks for your website about plurality. I am not affected but I am aware of at least one person who seemed to be affected and it was really really interesting to read.
    - LoganDark 3y ago
      > thanks for your website about plurality Not mine :)
otikik 3y ago
ADHD presents a variety of symptoms, not the same ones for everyone. The “H” (“hyperactive”) part in particular often doesn’t manifest (and that’s how many children become undiagnosed adults- hyperactivity is easier to spot). If you don’t have time dislexia, that doesn’t mean that others don’t.
- LoganDark 3y ago
  > If you don’t have time dislexia, that doesn’t mean that others don’t. In this case it's important to define what "time dyslexia" even is. I was talking about how the phrase didn't accurately describe ADHD symptoms, but you seem to be talking about a third thing that does have a concrete definition. What definition is that?
Aerbil313 3y ago
[flagged]
- Karsteski 3y ago
  You say that, but as another anecdote, I'm fit and lift weights, and I don't eat junk food. I wish my sleep were better but that's not for lack of trying. LoganDark's comment about some people with ADHD being absolutely unable to will themselves to do certain things describes me so well it's scary. It's something I've struggled with for years, and has affected me at work lately. I've always known I'm not lazy or stupid, and in the last few years I discovered programming and taught myself software development. I fixate on things strongly yet I struggle to do mental work if it just so happens that I find it uninteresting or pointless. It's fucking me up. My therapist even pointed out a few weeks ago that it's a strong sign of ADHD, but I hate the thought of having that... I guess now I really should seriously explore this. I only know that I started feeling like my dev job is pointless even though it's a great job, and my coworkers are fantastic. It's more deep than just pointless but now I can barely will myself do anything related to work... The brain really is fucked ha
- LoganDark 3y ago
  > poor general mental health which would be solved if the person in question didn’t mouthbreathe and eat sugar, and slept well and exercised regularly. I cannot do those things. I've been to physical therapy multiple times for things that are caused by a lack of physical activity. Their advice is the same every time: it would take less than 15 seconds every day to do a single stretch. Here are diagrams showing you how to do them. Look how easy it is. But even that is too much. I don't want it to be too much, I know it's dead simple and any normal person would be able to do it without a second thought, but that is the problem. I'm not a normal person, and my brain doesn't work like a normal person's does. It does not let me do that. It does not let me know when I should do that. If I set a timer/alarm, then when it goes off, I can't even listen to it. Either I just can't get up, or I want to finish what I'm doing first and then I completely forget. This isn't something that I control. It's not something that I chose. And it's not something that I can fix by simply being less pathetic. Because as much as I'm aware of these behaviors and now ridiculous they are, I cannot help them. There is no way for me to just make myself do something. My brain just only lets me do what it wants.
coldtea 3y ago
>As someone with ADHD, this wildly misrepresents the actual disorder. ADHD itself has nothing to do with time, it has to do with executive function. Someone with ADHD can try to will themselves into doing something and simply not be able to. That's misleading. ADHD does involve executive function issues, as it does other issues, including sensory issues like noise and light sensitivity (that have nothing to do with executive function), issues with body balance/proprioception (also nothing to do with executive function), issues like rejection sensitivity, as well as time issues ("time blindness").

throwaway47bs6 3y ago

Ahem. That's what yours is. Mine is straight-up time defiance. I stopped caring about clocks and deadlines. You speak for yourself: attentional difference is a cluster, not a fixed set of symptoms and behaviours. Another example, I'm not short of motivation. It's just there are so many interesting things to work on.

LoganDark 3y ago
> That's what yours is. No, it's not just what mine is. It agrees with the clinical definition of ADHD, with the experiences of all who I have spoken to about it, including many friends, with multiple[0] articles[1] describing[2] the disorder[3], and so on. Your time defiance is a symptom of a deeper problem. While I can't guarantee it's the exact same problem that I have, your disorder is certainly not just "time defiance", and if it truly is ADHD, the root of it will be executive dysfunction, as that is what defines the disorder. [0]: https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html [1]: https://cohost.org/cathoderaydude/post/862603-when-writing-about-t https://cohost.org/cathoderaydude/post/862603-when-writing-a... [2]: https://invisibleup.com/articles/27/ https://invisibleup.com/articles/27/ [3]: https://www.autostraddle.com/you-need-help-your-adhd-is-fcking-up-your-focus-272786/ https://www.autostraddle.com/you-need-help-your-adhd-is-fcki... > For example, I'm not short of motivation. It's just there are so many interesting things to work on. I could say the same thing. But I can't choose which thing I work on. I want to draw. I want to code. I have hundreds of unfinished projects I could have finished. I have hundreds of abandoned hobbies I could have stayed with. Sure I have "motivation", but it's motivation to do whatever catches my interest at the moment, not motivation to do any of the things that I actually want to do.
- throwaway47bs6 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - LoganDark 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - throwaway47bs6 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - LoganDark 3y ago
        > Ah-hah, so you're a patronising twit to boot, and a credulous one. > I guarantee DSM VI will be different. I sure hope it is. Right now they don't have great coverage of dissociative disorders yet. As for the rest of your comment, I don't see any point in continuing this discussion.

reitanqild 3y ago

I realize my comment above can be read as "time dyslexia is the whole problem with ADHD" and that was not my intention. Thanks for your perspective! I also totally agree that ADHD-ers know what time is. That said, ADHD is a thing I have to deal with and for me and a number of those I know who have ADHD, "time dyslexia" is a very good explanation for a subset of the problems we observe. > They absolutely cannot work on the task no matter how hard they try. They have not forgotten. They are not slacking off. They literally just can't do it. Their brain refuses to think about it, their body refuses to move for it. They don't have the willpower or the motivation for it. They are trapped. They are completely unable to make any progress because their brain will not let them. Here it is you who are taking agency away from ADHD-ers. Many can, it just takes a lot more effort than for other students/workers. Things I have seen working: - restricting oneself heavily so that the work at hand becomes the only possible thing to do - conjuring up reasons why something is intersting - pair programming - various ways of sneaking up to the subject (start by fixing a few small issues, them improve a unit test, then make a small prototype, then take a look at the actual problem in question) - gamification - etc

LoganDark 3y ago
> Here it is you who are taking agency away from ADHD-ers. What do you mean? All the mechanisms you've listed can be ways to help, yes, but you still can't just decide to do those things. You can try to reformat it or place it in some other context where it becomes doable, but these are specific coping mechanisms that shouldn't always be necessary, like they are for someone with severe enough ADHD. I apologize for implying that all ADHD is that severe, I'll see if I can edit it to be more clear there, but I'm not trying to take agency away; I'm trying to point out how it results in that "time dyslexia", and why it's a disorder (rather than just, say, laziness).
- reitanqild 3y ago
  > You can try to reformat it or place it in some other context where it becomes doable, but these are specific coping mechanisms that shouldn't always be necessary, like they are for someone with severe enough ADHD OK, I see, I think we agree very much here.

devbent 3y ago

Random question, Do all of you have ADHD? If not, that would be... Surprisingly I guess but also kind of hopeful.

LoganDark 3y ago
Do you mean all of my dissociative identities? The answer is yes. DID can result in individual identities having different access to certain parts of the brain (for example, certain identities could have aphantasia while others have vivid imaginations), but as far as I'm aware, ADHD is a problem with the brain's reward system itself (the one that has to do with dopamine), so it affects the entire brain function, no matter which part. However, I've been in situations where different identities can do things that I can't (i.e. switch in order to get out of bed in the morning), so I don't think anything is necessarily set in stone...
- reitanqild 3y ago
  Hi again, and thanks for your website about plurality. I am not affected but I am aware of at least one person who seemed to be affected and it was really really interesting to read.
  - LoganDark 3y ago
    > thanks for your website about plurality Not mine :)

otikik 3y ago

ADHD presents a variety of symptoms, not the same ones for everyone. The “H” (“hyperactive”) part in particular often doesn’t manifest (and that’s how many children become undiagnosed adults- hyperactivity is easier to spot). If you don’t have time dislexia, that doesn’t mean that others don’t.

LoganDark 3y ago
> If you don’t have time dislexia, that doesn’t mean that others don’t. In this case it's important to define what "time dyslexia" even is. I was talking about how the phrase didn't accurately describe ADHD symptoms, but you seem to be talking about a third thing that does have a concrete definition. What definition is that?

Aerbil313 3y ago

[flagged]

Karsteski 3y ago
You say that, but as another anecdote, I'm fit and lift weights, and I don't eat junk food. I wish my sleep were better but that's not for lack of trying. LoganDark's comment about some people with ADHD being absolutely unable to will themselves to do certain things describes me so well it's scary. It's something I've struggled with for years, and has affected me at work lately. I've always known I'm not lazy or stupid, and in the last few years I discovered programming and taught myself software development. I fixate on things strongly yet I struggle to do mental work if it just so happens that I find it uninteresting or pointless. It's fucking me up. My therapist even pointed out a few weeks ago that it's a strong sign of ADHD, but I hate the thought of having that... I guess now I really should seriously explore this. I only know that I started feeling like my dev job is pointless even though it's a great job, and my coworkers are fantastic. It's more deep than just pointless but now I can barely will myself do anything related to work... The brain really is fucked ha
LoganDark 3y ago
> poor general mental health which would be solved if the person in question didn’t mouthbreathe and eat sugar, and slept well and exercised regularly. I cannot do those things. I've been to physical therapy multiple times for things that are caused by a lack of physical activity. Their advice is the same every time: it would take less than 15 seconds every day to do a single stretch. Here are diagrams showing you how to do them. Look how easy it is. But even that is too much. I don't want it to be too much, I know it's dead simple and any normal person would be able to do it without a second thought, but that is the problem. I'm not a normal person, and my brain doesn't work like a normal person's does. It does not let me do that. It does not let me know when I should do that. If I set a timer/alarm, then when it goes off, I can't even listen to it. Either I just can't get up, or I want to finish what I'm doing first and then I completely forget. This isn't something that I control. It's not something that I chose. And it's not something that I can fix by simply being less pathetic. Because as much as I'm aware of these behaviors and now ridiculous they are, I cannot help them. There is no way for me to just make myself do something. My brain just only lets me do what it wants.

coldtea 3y ago

>As someone with ADHD, this wildly misrepresents the actual disorder. ADHD itself has nothing to do with time, it has to do with executive function. Someone with ADHD can try to will themselves into doing something and simply not be able to. That's misleading. ADHD does involve executive function issues, as it does other issues, including sensory issues like noise and light sensitivity (that have nothing to do with executive function), issues with body balance/proprioception (also nothing to do with executive function), issues like rejection sensitivity, as well as time issues ("time blindness").