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Not that this is a bad theory, but do consider: Some people may come to realize that their ambitions and what actually makes them happy don't actually coincide.

Not that this is a bad theory, but do consider: Some people may come to realize that their ambitions and what actually makes them happy don't actually coincide. It's one thing to be a go-getter, and it's another to be content. You can go out and go get and make millions at business, but the money alone isn't your friend, won't keep you warm at night, can't hold an intellectually stimulating conversation... to say nothing of the sacrifices one makes for the happiness and security of family and children. So go out and go get if you'd like, but don't go and judge everyone who hasn't. Maybe the factory pays well enough, the boredom is manageable, and the guy's got friends and family and is happy. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with that.

AVTizzle 15y ago
Absolutely agree. Like many HNers I'm sure, I'm guilty of overblown ambitions, both with startups and with life (I get off on big ideas, love the pull of big cities, love the idea of living a worldly life, etc...) I sat down with my cousin (buddhist) for breakfast when I was visiting him a few weeks ago. He works hard, went through medical school near home, and works at a practice near home. He's married now with 2 awesome kids, a lovely wife, and the four of them spend 5-6 days a week with our grandparents in San Jose. Just a super simple, super family-focused lifestyle. It's something I've mulled over a couple times since then. It always makes me wonder: that's a great fucking life. Why aren't I attracted to living like that too? Am I better off for my ambitions?
- carguy1983 15y ago
  Your cousin is a successful MD in the SF Bay area with a family, what planet do you live on where this is considered non-high-achieving/non-ambitious? He's basically at the apex of society's status pyramid, that's why he doesn't give a fuck about any of the frivolous crap so many people chase around - he's already achieved his dream and he is probably the envy of many.
  - RegEx 15y ago
    > what planet do you live on where this is considered non-high-achieving/non-ambitious? I believe the fact that he doesn't see his cousin as ambitious confirms his self-diagnosed overblown ambition.
  - AVTizzle 15y ago
    Hah. You make a good point. And if your question wasn't hypothetical, my satirical answer would be that I live in New York City - a place with sometimes laughably high standards for achievement and ambition. And I mostly agree with you. He is probably the envy of many. Achievement? Sure. But ambition? I thought for a while about how to best explain my whole sentiment on this idea, and my mind kept coming back to an excerpt from PG's "Cities and Ambition", where he lists common areas of ambition: "So far the complete list of messages I've picked up from cities is: wealth, style, hipness, physical attractiveness, fame, political power, economic power, intelligence, social class, and quality of life." It's those kinds of things that I realized my cousin didn't give two shits about. And I admit, there's more than a couple things on that list that I've realized are root desires driving my ambition. Frivolous? Definitely. And I guess that's the basis for my aforementioned wonderings.
    - carguy1983 15y ago
      You aren't thinking this through. A doctor with a successful career is basically one or two steps away from extremely high levels of success/achievement. Think of medical device patents, positions of power on medical associations, university positions, etc. Many people achieve this sort of thing later in life, not during their 20s like some kind of internet media darling. A lot of people actually have kids and do the family BEFORE seeking their large-scale success. This is actually what most people do.
  - fingerprinter 15y ago
    Interesting that you would phrase it that way. I was reading this thread and came back to it a few hours later so I saw the 1st follow-up, but not yours. I would say that I'm in a similar boat right now, though I sometimes feel guilty for not chasing the startup. My wife, also a doctor, makes a ton of money. I make quite a bit of money. I like what I do, but it isn't all that fulfilling. However, we have a great family life with our two kids, 4 and 1. I don't think I could trade the family life for the dream of chasing a start-up right now. I've worked in several start-ups and know what it can take and I don't believe I would be willing to do that at this point in my life. Maybe in 10 years, definitely in 20. That being said, I can understand what the other person said about being considered "non-ambitious". Think of it this way, some people (myself included) probably don't measure themselves by normal standards. I measure myself by the Gates' of the world. I've always done that. When I was playing sports, I didn't measure myself against the average or below average players and think "hey, I'm in the top 10% of this division/league/whatever", I would say "there are 10 people better than me and that cannot do". When I walk into the weight room or step onto the basketball court, I want to be considered the best. Not "one of the best", but "the best". So, sometimes when a person like this mentally says they aren't going to go after something but still see others doing it, it it is hard on them in a variety of ways. Honestly, I can say that I feel like I'm going through a mini-midlife crisis realizing that I may well be 40 before I do my next start-up of my own and that is hard to take....even if I KNOW I'm making the best decision for my family, which is more important to me (meaning, I want a healthy marriage, well adjusted, well rounded kids more than I want the gulf stream jet). So, all I'm trying to say is that the people on this board might well be the 1% or the top in their field, but they might also be the ones that only see the people that are better than them or have achieved more and by measuring against those people, they feel "non-ambitious/non-high-achieving".

AVTizzle 15y ago

Absolutely agree. Like many HNers I'm sure, I'm guilty of overblown ambitions, both with startups and with life (I get off on big ideas, love the pull of big cities, love the idea of living a worldly life, etc...) I sat down with my cousin (buddhist) for breakfast when I was visiting him a few weeks ago. He works hard, went through medical school near home, and works at a practice near home. He's married now with 2 awesome kids, a lovely wife, and the four of them spend 5-6 days a week with our grandparents in San Jose. Just a super simple, super family-focused lifestyle. It's something I've mulled over a couple times since then. It always makes me wonder: that's a great fucking life. Why aren't I attracted to living like that too? Am I better off for my ambitions?

carguy1983 15y ago
Your cousin is a successful MD in the SF Bay area with a family, what planet do you live on where this is considered non-high-achieving/non-ambitious? He's basically at the apex of society's status pyramid, that's why he doesn't give a fuck about any of the frivolous crap so many people chase around - he's already achieved his dream and he is probably the envy of many.
- RegEx 15y ago
  > what planet do you live on where this is considered non-high-achieving/non-ambitious? I believe the fact that he doesn't see his cousin as ambitious confirms his self-diagnosed overblown ambition.
- AVTizzle 15y ago
  Hah. You make a good point. And if your question wasn't hypothetical, my satirical answer would be that I live in New York City - a place with sometimes laughably high standards for achievement and ambition. And I mostly agree with you. He is probably the envy of many. Achievement? Sure. But ambition? I thought for a while about how to best explain my whole sentiment on this idea, and my mind kept coming back to an excerpt from PG's "Cities and Ambition", where he lists common areas of ambition: "So far the complete list of messages I've picked up from cities is: wealth, style, hipness, physical attractiveness, fame, political power, economic power, intelligence, social class, and quality of life." It's those kinds of things that I realized my cousin didn't give two shits about. And I admit, there's more than a couple things on that list that I've realized are root desires driving my ambition. Frivolous? Definitely. And I guess that's the basis for my aforementioned wonderings.
  - carguy1983 15y ago
    You aren't thinking this through. A doctor with a successful career is basically one or two steps away from extremely high levels of success/achievement. Think of medical device patents, positions of power on medical associations, university positions, etc. Many people achieve this sort of thing later in life, not during their 20s like some kind of internet media darling. A lot of people actually have kids and do the family BEFORE seeking their large-scale success. This is actually what most people do.
- fingerprinter 15y ago
  Interesting that you would phrase it that way. I was reading this thread and came back to it a few hours later so I saw the 1st follow-up, but not yours. I would say that I'm in a similar boat right now, though I sometimes feel guilty for not chasing the startup. My wife, also a doctor, makes a ton of money. I make quite a bit of money. I like what I do, but it isn't all that fulfilling. However, we have a great family life with our two kids, 4 and 1. I don't think I could trade the family life for the dream of chasing a start-up right now. I've worked in several start-ups and know what it can take and I don't believe I would be willing to do that at this point in my life. Maybe in 10 years, definitely in 20. That being said, I can understand what the other person said about being considered "non-ambitious". Think of it this way, some people (myself included) probably don't measure themselves by normal standards. I measure myself by the Gates' of the world. I've always done that. When I was playing sports, I didn't measure myself against the average or below average players and think "hey, I'm in the top 10% of this division/league/whatever", I would say "there are 10 people better than me and that cannot do". When I walk into the weight room or step onto the basketball court, I want to be considered the best. Not "one of the best", but "the best". So, sometimes when a person like this mentally says they aren't going to go after something but still see others doing it, it it is hard on them in a variety of ways. Honestly, I can say that I feel like I'm going through a mini-midlife crisis realizing that I may well be 40 before I do my next start-up of my own and that is hard to take....even if I KNOW I'm making the best decision for my family, which is more important to me (meaning, I want a healthy marriage, well adjusted, well rounded kids more than I want the gulf stream jet). So, all I'm trying to say is that the people on this board might well be the 1% or the top in their field, but they might also be the ones that only see the people that are better than them or have achieved more and by measuring against those people, they feel "non-ambitious/non-high-achieving".