5 ms·

> I think anyone involved in tech (software, hardware, anything) should be wildly in favor of massive H1-B increases, AI-related or not. Not if you like high w

> I think anyone involved in tech (software, hardware, anything) should be wildly in favor of massive H1-B increases, AI-related or not. Not if you like high wages, and you want them to stay that way.

mschuster91 3y ago
There's way too much work to do in the AI space and - even worldwide - not enough skilled people by far. The danger, IMHO, isn't wage dilution anyway (that one can be counteracted by politics) - it is that sensitive knowledge will make its way back to China and other current or potentially hostile nations, and it would not be the first time either that this happens.
- tayo42 3y ago
  You have sources for the fact that there isn't enough people? My interviewing experience suggests otherwise. They would be relaxing requirements like in office only and pay would go up. They're just as picky as any other company.
ketzo 3y ago
My final paragraph addresses that, but to expand: Devs have been worried about offshoring/immigrants replacing them/lowering their wages for decades. The only outcome we have ever observed from having more people building software is that dramatically more software jobs have become possible and in-demand. Also, and I understand why you might not make this argument, but let’s be honest: software engineering wages are extraordinarily high. Slowing or even reversing that growth by small amounts on average would still leave millions of extremely well-paid jobs.
- srackey 3y ago
  Except we have no control to compare to. Software is eating the world after all. Seems likely that demand would be high anyway. Perhaps if there were no H1Bs, entry level grads would make $250k, with the average senior dev making $750k+.
  - ketzo 3y ago
    That… seems objectively like a bad situation for the world. It would be way, way harder to make software if you had to pay people that much.
    - mufti_menk 3y ago
      Very very scary to think about. We must import as many immigrants as possible to make sure it doesn't happen.
      - dukeyukey 3y ago
        Why are you talking about "importing" immigrants like they're a bulk commodity and not people with hopes and dreams? My brother is an immigrant to the US - nobody imported him (unless you count his American wife), he moved because he wanted to. Hell, I'd _love_ to move to US but the immigration system for skilled workers is beyond fucked.
- mistrial9 3y ago
  until you are 40 years old
  - Ancapistani 3y ago
    I’m 40, and feel like I’m more in-demand than ever. YMMV, I guess.
    - dukeyukey 3y ago
      I've worked with loads of 40+ developers, even a few 70+.
      - mistrial9 3y ago
        you are in the EU, wager?
        dukeyukey 3y ago
        No, the UK. And the company with the oldest demographic was an American company based out of Seattle. The second oldest was another American company HQ'd in Portland.
        mistrial9 3y ago
        you found a 100 year old turtle and then claim that everything with four legs outlives a human then, metaphorically?
        dukeyukey 3y ago
        I'm genuinely a bit confused here, you haven't worked with middle-aged and older developers? I don't think I've ever worked anywhere without someone at least in their 40s, including the startup I'm at now. Almost everyone in tech during the dot-com boom is at least middle aged now.

mschuster91 3y ago

There's way too much work to do in the AI space and - even worldwide - not enough skilled people by far. The danger, IMHO, isn't wage dilution anyway (that one can be counteracted by politics) - it is that sensitive knowledge will make its way back to China and other current or potentially hostile nations, and it would not be the first time either that this happens.

tayo42 3y ago
You have sources for the fact that there isn't enough people? My interviewing experience suggests otherwise. They would be relaxing requirements like in office only and pay would go up. They're just as picky as any other company.

ketzo 3y ago

My final paragraph addresses that, but to expand: Devs have been worried about offshoring/immigrants replacing them/lowering their wages for decades. The only outcome we have ever observed from having more people building software is that dramatically more software jobs have become possible and in-demand. Also, and I understand why you might not make this argument, but let’s be honest: software engineering wages are extraordinarily high. Slowing or even reversing that growth by small amounts on average would still leave millions of extremely well-paid jobs.

srackey 3y ago
Except we have no control to compare to. Software is eating the world after all. Seems likely that demand would be high anyway. Perhaps if there were no H1Bs, entry level grads would make $250k, with the average senior dev making $750k+.
- ketzo 3y ago
  That… seems objectively like a bad situation for the world. It would be way, way harder to make software if you had to pay people that much.
  - mufti_menk 3y ago
    Very very scary to think about. We must import as many immigrants as possible to make sure it doesn't happen.
    - dukeyukey 3y ago
      Why are you talking about "importing" immigrants like they're a bulk commodity and not people with hopes and dreams? My brother is an immigrant to the US - nobody imported him (unless you count his American wife), he moved because he wanted to. Hell, I'd _love_ to move to US but the immigration system for skilled workers is beyond fucked.
mistrial9 3y ago
until you are 40 years old
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  I’m 40, and feel like I’m more in-demand than ever. YMMV, I guess.
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    I've worked with loads of 40+ developers, even a few 70+.
    - mistrial9 3y ago
      you are in the EU, wager?
      - dukeyukey 3y ago
        No, the UK. And the company with the oldest demographic was an American company based out of Seattle. The second oldest was another American company HQ'd in Portland.
        mistrial9 3y ago
        you found a 100 year old turtle and then claim that everything with four legs outlives a human then, metaphorically?
        dukeyukey 3y ago
        I'm genuinely a bit confused here, you haven't worked with middle-aged and older developers? I don't think I've ever worked anywhere without someone at least in their 40s, including the startup I'm at now. Almost everyone in tech during the dot-com boom is at least middle aged now.