4 ms·

So all benefits, no negatives?

by indigo0086 3y ago

vGPU 3y ago
I can’t help but feel like I’ve heard this before.
- bradleybuda 3y ago
  The great thing about technology is that it's possible to have new things or ways of life that are strictly better than the ones they replace! We can move beyond the efficient frontier; progress is non-zero-sum. * Golden Rice * Unleaded gas * HCFCs (over CFCs) * etc
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    Yes it's possible, but we really need to be cautious. In general it's a bad idea to underestimate adaptive systems. It's especially foolish to underestimate the ultimate adaptive system: natural ecosystems. We should be extremely humble and careful when we're toying with the unfathomably complex system that we depend on. We understand very, very, very little about these things except that they're hard to predict and we really need them to continue working well enough to maintain the parameters we need for survival.
- dan-robertson 3y ago
  How often do you hear about the downsides of malaria eradication in the United States (probably spraying most of Florida with DDT would be one…)? What about screwworm fly elimination in the United States and parts of Central America? That program is much more similar to the thing described in this article than spraying every puddle with insecticide.
  - toast0 3y ago
    Afaik, DDT continues to be accepted for malarial mosquito control; DDT as an agricultural pesticide is what got a worldwide ban.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    DDT doesn't run the risk of "running away" out of control the way biological/bacterial/viral interventions do. This is my first time hearing about screwworm and 1) wow what a nasty looking infection, and 2) boy am I glad it looks like the eradication campaign is going well! And yes the screwworm program does seem really similar to this, so especially thrilled it seems to be going well!
  - vGPU 3y ago
    Well, widespread spraying with DDT did essentially create a permanent reservoir of DDT-resistant mosquitoes, which also made them resistant to pyrethroids. Bit of a problem. Fun fact - DDT makes spider mites extra fertile. I do agree however that the eradication efforts of both caused significantly more good than harm, no question.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
The negative is you're disrupting the ecosystem. They reduce the mosquito lifespan's which might impact their population. Things that eat mosquitoes might have to adapt. At this point I'm prepared to accept that though. The suffering these things cause is immeasurable. I hate mosquitoes so much I wish I could nuke them.
- andrewflnr 3y ago
  More likely, the targeted mosquitoes are outcompeted by other mosquito or small insect species that are just as useful to whatever was dependent on the targets. There's an obvious exception for if some plant is exclusively pollinated by some disease-carrying mosquito, or other bet specific relationship, but that seems unlikely and easy to detect in advance. People in these discussions forget that there are lots of mosquito species, most of which don't transmit diseases.
  - ojosilva 3y ago
    In fact, there's certain belief in the Scientific community that (human biting, desease spreading) mosquitoes could safely be eradicated from the planet without impacting on the ecosystem. https://www.nature.com/articles/466432a https://www.nature.com/articles/466432a

So all benefits, no negatives?

vGPU 3y ago

I can’t help but feel like I’ve heard this before.

bradleybuda 3y ago
The great thing about technology is that it's possible to have new things or ways of life that are strictly better than the ones they replace! We can move beyond the efficient frontier; progress is non-zero-sum. * Golden Rice * Unleaded gas * HCFCs (over CFCs) * etc
- ethanbond 3y ago
  Yes it's possible, but we really need to be cautious. In general it's a bad idea to underestimate adaptive systems. It's especially foolish to underestimate the ultimate adaptive system: natural ecosystems. We should be extremely humble and careful when we're toying with the unfathomably complex system that we depend on. We understand very, very, very little about these things except that they're hard to predict and we really need them to continue working well enough to maintain the parameters we need for survival.
dan-robertson 3y ago
How often do you hear about the downsides of malaria eradication in the United States (probably spraying most of Florida with DDT would be one…)? What about screwworm fly elimination in the United States and parts of Central America? That program is much more similar to the thing described in this article than spraying every puddle with insecticide.
- toast0 3y ago
  Afaik, DDT continues to be accepted for malarial mosquito control; DDT as an agricultural pesticide is what got a worldwide ban.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  DDT doesn't run the risk of "running away" out of control the way biological/bacterial/viral interventions do. This is my first time hearing about screwworm and 1) wow what a nasty looking infection, and 2) boy am I glad it looks like the eradication campaign is going well! And yes the screwworm program does seem really similar to this, so especially thrilled it seems to be going well!
- vGPU 3y ago
  Well, widespread spraying with DDT did essentially create a permanent reservoir of DDT-resistant mosquitoes, which also made them resistant to pyrethroids. Bit of a problem. Fun fact - DDT makes spider mites extra fertile. I do agree however that the eradication efforts of both caused significantly more good than harm, no question.

matheusmoreira 3y ago

The negative is you're disrupting the ecosystem. They reduce the mosquito lifespan's which might impact their population. Things that eat mosquitoes might have to adapt. At this point I'm prepared to accept that though. The suffering these things cause is immeasurable. I hate mosquitoes so much I wish I could nuke them.

andrewflnr 3y ago
More likely, the targeted mosquitoes are outcompeted by other mosquito or small insect species that are just as useful to whatever was dependent on the targets. There's an obvious exception for if some plant is exclusively pollinated by some disease-carrying mosquito, or other bet specific relationship, but that seems unlikely and easy to detect in advance. People in these discussions forget that there are lots of mosquito species, most of which don't transmit diseases.
- ojosilva 3y ago
  In fact, there's certain belief in the Scientific community that (human biting, desease spreading) mosquitoes could safely be eradicated from the planet without impacting on the ecosystem. https://www.nature.com/articles/466432a https://www.nature.com/articles/466432a