5 ms·

In a cameras-everywhere culture, science fiction becomes reality (2015)

32 points by haltist 3y ago

robg 3y ago
Pretty wild if you told me 20 years ago we’d buy always watching cameras for outside our homes and always listening microphones for inside our homes.
- _8j50 3y ago
  Cctv was around for longer than that, it was just more expensive. The good stuff still is.
ghaff 3y ago
It's hard to say what the ultimate outcome is. Presumably, there are far more photographs taken of unguarded moments at college parties or wherever. On the other hand, I assume there is at least a degree of self-censorship and few people are literally livestreaming 24/7 or posting photos of every moment that would possibly embarass someone someday. Or maybe people just learn to mostly not care about this sort of thing.
dbtc 3y ago
Sometimes I wonder what it was like to live in a time and place where I and everyone around me sincerely believed that an omniscient presence was observing each of us constantly.
- scotty79 3y ago
  It's only fitting that people are recreating with their technology the God they were fantasizing about for millenia. I just hope the'll be less keen on building virtual hell.
Throw389559 3y ago
We live in crazy times. I think people should wear body cams, record 24/7, and store video for several years, just to prevent any misunderstandings. Imagine you are married for 20 years, and your wife remembers that 15 years ago, she was too tired to consent and you coerced her into sex. It would be great to have archival footage, that shows, she was the one who initiated on that day! Or imagine you are a male teacher at school, and you do not record everything! Your life could be ruined so easily!
- ghaff 3y ago
  I assume there is an implied /s. Fortunately we're not at the point (under most circumstances) where most of us need a personal version of drivecam footage for everything.
  - Throw389559 3y ago
    Most people do not need data backups. Until they do need them...
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I do make multiple data backups. Because something WILL (almost certainly) happen sooner or later. I can't defend against every eventuality that may happen to me although I take mostly reasonable precautions. Which doesn't include recording everything 24/7.
      - Throw389559 3y ago
        Maybe 24/7 is impractical. But it is pretty easy to put camera into bedroom. And if you put big industrial label "This area is monitored by CCTV" as decoration, it makes recording perfectly legal! Nothing impractical on that.
        ghaff 3y ago
        That's fine. I just will not be entering your house for any purpose.
- EvanAnderson 3y ago
  I sincerely want tagged recordings (GPS, transcript, facial and speaker recognition) of my life. I find so much utility in the "panopticon" I already have with my browser history, credit card receipt, call metadata, text messages, and email. I wish I could have it for all of my life. Running counter to that is my fear that such data could never be kept secure. I don't want it for that reason, and I question whether what I already have is a good idea. I am also disturbed that corporations and law enforcement have a version of that panopticon for me that can only be used against me.
smokel 3y ago
It's a happy coincidence that thanks to AI, soon people will trust authenticity of video as much as that of written text.
Animats 3y ago
Orwell's Big Brother was grim. China's Big Brother is delightfully upbeat.[1][2][3] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9p1jWfzNrg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9p1jWfzNrg [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U2LWuBFIR0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U2LWuBFIR0 [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFnkSuyRV54 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFnkSuyRV54
rossant 3y ago
Generalization of 24/7 footage of infants <12 months could be a game-changer in the 50-year-long scientific and legal controversy around medical determinations of shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma (SBS/AHT) [1]. It is hotly debated whether the majority of these diagnoses (frequently relying on the sole observation of blood around the brain and behind the eyes in infants without any obvious explanation nor history of major trauma) represent actual cases of child abuse, or false allegations of abuse on infants suffering from undiagnosed rare diseases [2]. Legal and societal ramification of this controversy are unprecedented, with thousands of parents and caretakers emprisoned and as many children removed from their home. The persons accused of shaking their baby because subdural and retinal hemorrhage were found are presumed guilty, and they have no way of proving their innocence, that is, that their baby was never shaken... UNLESS they're able to provide 24/7 footage of their infant (or at least, the few hours/days before the baby's sudden collapse). I estimate that these events occur in 1 infant out of 3000 every year. I think we have the technology to generalize such recording systems dedicated to infants <12 months at a reasonable cost. With a few thousands systems in the US population for example, we'd have within a single year a few instances of babies collapsing (most often at home), brought to the hospital and presenting subdural and retinal hemorrhage with the videotaped proof of what happened before the collapse: abuse or no abuse. Whatever the cameras find out, this could be the final blow to this enduring controversy. Of note, this recent article [3] showing exactly this, a history of short fall supposedly causing these injuries that was dismissed by doctors who usually believe short falls never cause them. Video footage obtained by the police actually proved the history of the short fall (the doctors thought it was an "outlier" though). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37650402 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37650402 [2] https://shakenbaby.science/ https://shakenbaby.science/ [3] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1091853123001179 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10918...
- voakbasda 3y ago
  More generally, we treat people as guilty until proven innocent. I personally want a 24/7 body camera to defend myself against all of the abusive liars and thieves, including the government itself, who weaponized the legal system and destroy innocent lives.
kbos87 3y ago
The way that society has completely acquiesced to constant monitoring and tracking - not necessarily by governments, but by one another - completely blows my mind. I’ve had coworkers casually and shamelessly pull up their living room camera for us all to see their spouse sitting on the couch in real time. I’ve been looked at like I have two heads when I say my partner and I don’t track each others’ location using Find My. These are all little erosions of personal autonomy that are kryptonite to me, but most people just don’t seem to see a problem with them. I don’t get it.
- qiine 3y ago
  "I’ve had coworkers casually and shamelessly pull up their living room camera for us all to see their spouse sitting on the couch in real time." What the fuck ?!
  - defrost 3y ago
    If it's any consolation there's a good chance they're showing a TaskRabbit gig worker doing a faux spouse experience spot. Tomorrow's World Today is an odd place.
- smokel 3y ago
  Before, God was always watching, and that seems to have given people a comfortable feel for many centuries.
xnx 3y ago
We're about to enter a new era of recorded history where our entire lives are recorded from birth to death. Will be interesting to see all the changes that come from having complete recall of experiences.

32 points by haltist 3y ago

robg 3y ago

Pretty wild if you told me 20 years ago we’d buy always watching cameras for outside our homes and always listening microphones for inside our homes.

_8j50 3y ago
Cctv was around for longer than that, it was just more expensive. The good stuff still is.

ghaff 3y ago

It's hard to say what the ultimate outcome is. Presumably, there are far more photographs taken of unguarded moments at college parties or wherever. On the other hand, I assume there is at least a degree of self-censorship and few people are literally livestreaming 24/7 or posting photos of every moment that would possibly embarass someone someday. Or maybe people just learn to mostly not care about this sort of thing.

dbtc 3y ago

Sometimes I wonder what it was like to live in a time and place where I and everyone around me sincerely believed that an omniscient presence was observing each of us constantly.

scotty79 3y ago
It's only fitting that people are recreating with their technology the God they were fantasizing about for millenia. I just hope the'll be less keen on building virtual hell.

Throw389559 3y ago

We live in crazy times. I think people should wear body cams, record 24/7, and store video for several years, just to prevent any misunderstandings. Imagine you are married for 20 years, and your wife remembers that 15 years ago, she was too tired to consent and you coerced her into sex. It would be great to have archival footage, that shows, she was the one who initiated on that day! Or imagine you are a male teacher at school, and you do not record everything! Your life could be ruined so easily!

ghaff 3y ago
I assume there is an implied /s. Fortunately we're not at the point (under most circumstances) where most of us need a personal version of drivecam footage for everything.
- Throw389559 3y ago
  Most people do not need data backups. Until they do need them...
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I do make multiple data backups. Because something WILL (almost certainly) happen sooner or later. I can't defend against every eventuality that may happen to me although I take mostly reasonable precautions. Which doesn't include recording everything 24/7.
    - Throw389559 3y ago
      Maybe 24/7 is impractical. But it is pretty easy to put camera into bedroom. And if you put big industrial label "This area is monitored by CCTV" as decoration, it makes recording perfectly legal! Nothing impractical on that.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        That's fine. I just will not be entering your house for any purpose.
EvanAnderson 3y ago
I sincerely want tagged recordings (GPS, transcript, facial and speaker recognition) of my life. I find so much utility in the "panopticon" I already have with my browser history, credit card receipt, call metadata, text messages, and email. I wish I could have it for all of my life. Running counter to that is my fear that such data could never be kept secure. I don't want it for that reason, and I question whether what I already have is a good idea. I am also disturbed that corporations and law enforcement have a version of that panopticon for me that can only be used against me.

smokel 3y ago

It's a happy coincidence that thanks to AI, soon people will trust authenticity of video as much as that of written text.

Animats 3y ago

Orwell's Big Brother was grim. China's Big Brother is delightfully upbeat.[1][2][3] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9p1jWfzNrg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9p1jWfzNrg [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U2LWuBFIR0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U2LWuBFIR0 [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFnkSuyRV54 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFnkSuyRV54

rossant 3y ago

Generalization of 24/7 footage of infants <12 months could be a game-changer in the 50-year-long scientific and legal controversy around medical determinations of shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma (SBS/AHT) [1]. It is hotly debated whether the majority of these diagnoses (frequently relying on the sole observation of blood around the brain and behind the eyes in infants without any obvious explanation nor history of major trauma) represent actual cases of child abuse, or false allegations of abuse on infants suffering from undiagnosed rare diseases [2]. Legal and societal ramification of this controversy are unprecedented, with thousands of parents and caretakers emprisoned and as many children removed from their home. The persons accused of shaking their baby because subdural and retinal hemorrhage were found are presumed guilty, and they have no way of proving their innocence, that is, that their baby was never shaken... UNLESS they're able to provide 24/7 footage of their infant (or at least, the few hours/days before the baby's sudden collapse). I estimate that these events occur in 1 infant out of 3000 every year. I think we have the technology to generalize such recording systems dedicated to infants <12 months at a reasonable cost. With a few thousands systems in the US population for example, we'd have within a single year a few instances of babies collapsing (most often at home), brought to the hospital and presenting subdural and retinal hemorrhage with the videotaped proof of what happened before the collapse: abuse or no abuse. Whatever the cameras find out, this could be the final blow to this enduring controversy. Of note, this recent article [3] showing exactly this, a history of short fall supposedly causing these injuries that was dismissed by doctors who usually believe short falls never cause them. Video footage obtained by the police actually proved the history of the short fall (the doctors thought it was an "outlier" though). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37650402 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37650402 [2] https://shakenbaby.science/ https://shakenbaby.science/ [3] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1091853123001179 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10918...

voakbasda 3y ago
More generally, we treat people as guilty until proven innocent. I personally want a 24/7 body camera to defend myself against all of the abusive liars and thieves, including the government itself, who weaponized the legal system and destroy innocent lives.

kbos87 3y ago

The way that society has completely acquiesced to constant monitoring and tracking - not necessarily by governments, but by one another - completely blows my mind. I’ve had coworkers casually and shamelessly pull up their living room camera for us all to see their spouse sitting on the couch in real time. I’ve been looked at like I have two heads when I say my partner and I don’t track each others’ location using Find My. These are all little erosions of personal autonomy that are kryptonite to me, but most people just don’t seem to see a problem with them. I don’t get it.

qiine 3y ago
"I’ve had coworkers casually and shamelessly pull up their living room camera for us all to see their spouse sitting on the couch in real time." What the fuck ?!
- defrost 3y ago
  If it's any consolation there's a good chance they're showing a TaskRabbit gig worker doing a faux spouse experience spot. Tomorrow's World Today is an odd place.
smokel 3y ago
Before, God was always watching, and that seems to have given people a comfortable feel for many centuries.

xnx 3y ago

We're about to enter a new era of recorded history where our entire lives are recorded from birth to death. Will be interesting to see all the changes that come from having complete recall of experiences.