3 ms·

Consumer rooftop is about the same price range as nuclear. Commercial rooftop (warehouses, big box stores etc) is a bit cheaper than nuclear, with the most exp

Consumer rooftop is about the same price range as nuclear. Commercial rooftop (warehouses, big box stores etc) is a bit cheaper than nuclear, with the most expensive being the same cost as an average nuclear plant, and the low end for new commercial rooftop solar being the same as the running costs of already built nuclear: https://www.lazard.com/media/2ozoovyg/lazards-lcoeplus-april-2023.pdf https://www.lazard.com/media/2ozoovyg/lazards-lcoeplus-april...

s1artibartfast 3y ago
You link is broken, is this the same [1]?. https://www.lazard.com/media/2ozoovyg/lazards-lcoeplus-april-2023.pdf https://www.lazard.com/media/2ozoovyg/lazards-lcoeplus-april... It still shows rooftop clearly to clearly have the worst LCOE. I bet the assumptions for Rooftop dont include suboptimal builds, like builds in San Francisco, on a north facing roof, under a tree, with storage. Rooftop can be good in niches, but it is hardly a panacea.
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
  It's not clearly worst, since it shows that some rooftop solar is cheaper than the cheapest nuclear, there's mostly overlap in prices.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    Im not sure why you are looking at the minimum solar costs instead of the average.
Tams80 3y ago
We're talking about the UK here. Ain't no sunshine.
- ben_w 3y ago
  There's enough sunshine to make a difference, despite the clouds and the dark winter.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    we went discussing if it can make a difference. spending a billion dollars on hamster wheels for renewable power could make a difference. The point is that rooftop solar is grossly inefficient and terribly expensive compared to just about anything else someone could do.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      Your point is false. Rooftop PV saves (if your roof is suitable) significant amounts on a domestic energy bill even in the UK. I know this from having lived in two houses in the UK that had them, and the calculations that went into deciding to install the first of those, and that panels/inverters etc. have become much cheaper since then. Also, last time I was living in the UK, the grid cost looked like it was billed as a separate line item to the per-unit (kWh) cost, so this really is about the domestic price itself and not just funky billing hiding the cost of the grid like you wrote in another comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38158442 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38158442 The grid scale alternatives — solar farms, wind farms, hydroelectric — can be better or worse in different ways and different times of year, but normal people can't put full size ones on their own property and such wind and hydro scale non-linearly anyway so small ones aren't as cost effective[0]. Furthermore, the reason for the link under which this is being discussed, is that the UK has land area constraints. Suitable areas in the UK for grid scale PV are basically all farms and/or designed National Parks or AONBs and/or designated green belt, and the exceptions (like disused military bases and airfields) have people clamouring over them to build new towns. Sometimes people can get grid scale PV past planning permission, but it's hard work and upsets people with power who want the countryside to look like farmland. Rooftop PV circumvents that. [0] Except possibly geothermal/ground source heat pump. Those still provide cost effective benefit when you can do them, but the wide price range means I'm not sure which is better.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

You link is broken, is this the same [1]?. https://www.lazard.com/media/2ozoovyg/lazards-lcoeplus-april-2023.pdf https://www.lazard.com/media/2ozoovyg/lazards-lcoeplus-april... It still shows rooftop clearly to clearly have the worst LCOE. I bet the assumptions for Rooftop dont include suboptimal builds, like builds in San Francisco, on a north facing roof, under a tree, with storage. Rooftop can be good in niches, but it is hardly a panacea.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago
It's not clearly worst, since it shows that some rooftop solar is cheaper than the cheapest nuclear, there's mostly overlap in prices.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  Im not sure why you are looking at the minimum solar costs instead of the average.

Tams80 3y ago

We're talking about the UK here. Ain't no sunshine.

ben_w 3y ago
There's enough sunshine to make a difference, despite the clouds and the dark winter.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  we went discussing if it can make a difference. spending a billion dollars on hamster wheels for renewable power could make a difference. The point is that rooftop solar is grossly inefficient and terribly expensive compared to just about anything else someone could do.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    Your point is false. Rooftop PV saves (if your roof is suitable) significant amounts on a domestic energy bill even in the UK. I know this from having lived in two houses in the UK that had them, and the calculations that went into deciding to install the first of those, and that panels/inverters etc. have become much cheaper since then. Also, last time I was living in the UK, the grid cost looked like it was billed as a separate line item to the per-unit (kWh) cost, so this really is about the domestic price itself and not just funky billing hiding the cost of the grid like you wrote in another comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38158442 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38158442 The grid scale alternatives — solar farms, wind farms, hydroelectric — can be better or worse in different ways and different times of year, but normal people can't put full size ones on their own property and such wind and hydro scale non-linearly anyway so small ones aren't as cost effective[0]. Furthermore, the reason for the link under which this is being discussed, is that the UK has land area constraints. Suitable areas in the UK for grid scale PV are basically all farms and/or designed National Parks or AONBs and/or designated green belt, and the exceptions (like disused military bases and airfields) have people clamouring over them to build new towns. Sometimes people can get grid scale PV past planning permission, but it's hard work and upsets people with power who want the countryside to look like farmland. Rooftop PV circumvents that. [0] Except possibly geothermal/ground source heat pump. Those still provide cost effective benefit when you can do them, but the wide price range means I'm not sure which is better.