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I wish there was more support to not just decriminalize but legalize psychedelics broadly. I know there are plenty of ongoing clinical trials, but the collectio

I wish there was more support to not just decriminalize but legalize psychedelics broadly. I know there are plenty of ongoing clinical trials, but the collection of Psilocybin, LSD, Mescaline, Ibogaine is genuinely a treasure chest and probably the best thing that has happened to medicine in a long time, if not ever. Edit: i highly recommend watching Michael Pollan's "How to change your mind" (Netflix documentary). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8LRb4jfZ9g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8LRb4jfZ9g

almatabata 3y ago
When you say legalize broadly i guess you mean allow doctors to prescribe it to their patients with proper protocols and not just allow anyone to buy it over the counter?
- fullspectrumdev 3y ago
  When I talk about legalising drugs, I mean being able to buy them with the same level of control as beer or cigarettes.
  - gymbeaux 3y ago
    Because beer and cigarettes are both mind-altering drugs yet get a pass because of mostly-economic reasons.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      Not economic, historical. It's purely because both were things before the puritan movement (which still greatly impacts society today) and people are already familiar with them. If alcohol were discovered today, there's no way in hell it would be legal
      - gymbeaux 3y ago
        So of course they’re both very old staples in human culture, but I mean to say that any attempts to regulate them are/will be met with more economic resistance than cultural… like Anheiser-Busch (spelling definitely wrong) and Philip-Morris (now Altria I believe) would be a bigger obstacle than “the people.”
    - almatabata 3y ago
      Do cigarettes have such a big mind-altering effect?
      - gymbeaux 3y ago
        I can’t speak personally, but people often get from nicotine what they would also get from marijuana- both have a “high” that makes you feel “different”, and the withdrawal symptoms from nicotine are more like those of meth than marijuana (which as far as I know, has no withdrawal since it’s non-addictive).
  - almatabata 3y ago
    thanks for clarifying.
sedivy94 3y ago
I’m not going to be that guy, because I don’t read nearly enough to begin with, but I read the book and… it was amazing. I have a deep appreciation for the psychedelic experience and reading his trip reports brought me, a 30 year old man, to tears.
zozbot234 3y ago
What do psychedelics achieve here that ordinary meditation as in e.g. vipassana does not? They seem like a pointless shortcut, and potentially a problematic one. If the hallucinatory dynamic is specifically what you care about, that's also typical of perfectly ordinary experiences such as dreaming, or even just drifting in and out of sleep. What "treasure" are we gaining by dosing the brain with chemicals, that we couldn't otherwise?
- freedomben 3y ago
  This is very similar to "what do antidepressant medications achieve that regular diet and exercise do not? " Assuming equal efficacy is possible in the first place, and assuming every human is even capable of reaching those levels, there are people who can't spend the sometimes years it takes to practice meditation to a point where they can achieve psychidelic efficacy. Why not have both available and you can do you?
  - pacificmaelstrm 3y ago
    An equally valid and troubling question, doesn't really make your point.
- cyberpip 3y ago
  The argument here is that psychedelics are more than "chemicals" and comparing them to drifting in and out of sleep is not a real comparison. Can't argue against them sometimes being problematic though, of course, but the argument here isn't acknowledging the real psychedelic experience. If curious, check out some reports on https://www.youtube.com/@Vivec https://www.youtube.com/@Vivec
  - zozbot234 3y ago
    What I compared to drifting in and out of sleep was merely one effect of psychedelics that people tend to be curious about, namely hallucination. Moreover one can very much approach these dreamlike states with a meditation-like, non-judgmental, non self-centered mental posture, and this is going to make their effects even clearer.
vorpalhex 3y ago
Psychdelics can and do kill meaningful amount of people, almost exclusively due to injuries while under their affects. 147 psychedelic deaths over three years - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1523208/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1523208/ I'll have to find a youtube video but there's a good one with one of the psychdelic guru's describing a trip where had mis-dosed (he didn't realize the mushrooms he was consuming were significantly stronger than anticipated) and he ended up stuck in a "loop" of not being able to start his car.. for three or four hours. His exprience was distressing but not much of an injury, but he then delves into a story about how a similar loop resulted in one of his friends dying from repeatedly falling into cement.
- grogenaut 3y ago
  How did the guy end up with 2 different neophyte people they were instructing in dangerous situations and sharing that. Let's not mince word, if the first had started the carit would be a dangerous situation. In college with alcohol wed stick a sober watcher over the pre-frosh who decided to drink the first time away from home. Having just one go slightly sideways would make me really cautious. I was because freshman year I found some random pre-frosh who had hidden in a closet cause they thought they'd be in trouble (they were not, wet campus) who needed help.
- freedomben 3y ago
  If 147 in 3 years is "a meaningful amount of people" then we're gonna need to ban a lot of other stuff to stay consistent.
  - debo_ 3y ago
    Like lakes, for example.
    - jvm___ 3y ago
      Stairs
    - Turing_Machine 3y ago
huytersd 3y ago
I understand that people are very different because if I took mushrooms when I was terminally ill, I would have a trip so bad it would break my mind.
- ngai_aku 3y ago
  Did a previous trip lead you to this belief are you just speculating on what your experience would be like?
  - huytersd 3y ago
    I’ve had one bad trip (not terrible) when I was expecting some bad news. I’m basing it off of that experience. I’ve had a dozen other good trips but I was always careful to make sure I was in a good headspace before doing it.
- bobosha 3y ago
  AFAIK, there are 3 key ingredients to the trip: the set (before), the setting (during) and integration (the after). This is not a DIY therapy, but needs to be under a therapist's supervision.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

almatabata 3y ago

When you say legalize broadly i guess you mean allow doctors to prescribe it to their patients with proper protocols and not just allow anyone to buy it over the counter?

fullspectrumdev 3y ago
When I talk about legalising drugs, I mean being able to buy them with the same level of control as beer or cigarettes.
- gymbeaux 3y ago
  Because beer and cigarettes are both mind-altering drugs yet get a pass because of mostly-economic reasons.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    Not economic, historical. It's purely because both were things before the puritan movement (which still greatly impacts society today) and people are already familiar with them. If alcohol were discovered today, there's no way in hell it would be legal
    - gymbeaux 3y ago
      So of course they’re both very old staples in human culture, but I mean to say that any attempts to regulate them are/will be met with more economic resistance than cultural… like Anheiser-Busch (spelling definitely wrong) and Philip-Morris (now Altria I believe) would be a bigger obstacle than “the people.”
  - almatabata 3y ago
    Do cigarettes have such a big mind-altering effect?
    - gymbeaux 3y ago
      I can’t speak personally, but people often get from nicotine what they would also get from marijuana- both have a “high” that makes you feel “different”, and the withdrawal symptoms from nicotine are more like those of meth than marijuana (which as far as I know, has no withdrawal since it’s non-addictive).
- almatabata 3y ago
  thanks for clarifying.

sedivy94 3y ago

I’m not going to be that guy, because I don’t read nearly enough to begin with, but I read the book and… it was amazing. I have a deep appreciation for the psychedelic experience and reading his trip reports brought me, a 30 year old man, to tears.

zozbot234 3y ago

What do psychedelics achieve here that ordinary meditation as in e.g. vipassana does not? They seem like a pointless shortcut, and potentially a problematic one. If the hallucinatory dynamic is specifically what you care about, that's also typical of perfectly ordinary experiences such as dreaming, or even just drifting in and out of sleep. What "treasure" are we gaining by dosing the brain with chemicals, that we couldn't otherwise?

freedomben 3y ago
This is very similar to "what do antidepressant medications achieve that regular diet and exercise do not? " Assuming equal efficacy is possible in the first place, and assuming every human is even capable of reaching those levels, there are people who can't spend the sometimes years it takes to practice meditation to a point where they can achieve psychidelic efficacy. Why not have both available and you can do you?
- pacificmaelstrm 3y ago
  An equally valid and troubling question, doesn't really make your point.
cyberpip 3y ago
The argument here is that psychedelics are more than "chemicals" and comparing them to drifting in and out of sleep is not a real comparison. Can't argue against them sometimes being problematic though, of course, but the argument here isn't acknowledging the real psychedelic experience. If curious, check out some reports on https://www.youtube.com/@Vivec https://www.youtube.com/@Vivec
- zozbot234 3y ago
  What I compared to drifting in and out of sleep was merely one effect of psychedelics that people tend to be curious about, namely hallucination. Moreover one can very much approach these dreamlike states with a meditation-like, non-judgmental, non self-centered mental posture, and this is going to make their effects even clearer.

vorpalhex 3y ago

Psychdelics can and do kill meaningful amount of people, almost exclusively due to injuries while under their affects. 147 psychedelic deaths over three years - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1523208/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1523208/ I'll have to find a youtube video but there's a good one with one of the psychdelic guru's describing a trip where had mis-dosed (he didn't realize the mushrooms he was consuming were significantly stronger than anticipated) and he ended up stuck in a "loop" of not being able to start his car.. for three or four hours. His exprience was distressing but not much of an injury, but he then delves into a story about how a similar loop resulted in one of his friends dying from repeatedly falling into cement.

grogenaut 3y ago
How did the guy end up with 2 different neophyte people they were instructing in dangerous situations and sharing that. Let's not mince word, if the first had started the carit would be a dangerous situation. In college with alcohol wed stick a sober watcher over the pre-frosh who decided to drink the first time away from home. Having just one go slightly sideways would make me really cautious. I was because freshman year I found some random pre-frosh who had hidden in a closet cause they thought they'd be in trouble (they were not, wet campus) who needed help.
freedomben 3y ago
If 147 in 3 years is "a meaningful amount of people" then we're gonna need to ban a lot of other stuff to stay consistent.
- debo_ 3y ago
  Like lakes, for example.
  - jvm___ 3y ago
    Stairs
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago

huytersd 3y ago

I understand that people are very different because if I took mushrooms when I was terminally ill, I would have a trip so bad it would break my mind.

ngai_aku 3y ago
Did a previous trip lead you to this belief are you just speculating on what your experience would be like?
- huytersd 3y ago
  I’ve had one bad trip (not terrible) when I was expecting some bad news. I’m basing it off of that experience. I’ve had a dozen other good trips but I was always careful to make sure I was in a good headspace before doing it.
bobosha 3y ago
AFAIK, there are 3 key ingredients to the trip: the set (before), the setting (during) and integration (the after). This is not a DIY therapy, but needs to be under a therapist's supervision.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]