3 ms·

Too much doom and gloom in my comment. My apologies.

wolverine876 3y ago
> it continues to do nothing > Not many will read this far, and that's OK. I can't force anyone. > try to make your software use less energy? I mean this in the best way, because I believe you want to solve the problem: That is the message of a quitter, and you are spreading your despair to the rest of the locker room. The enemy is celebrating your bizarre embrace and spread of their message. Nobody needs that cancer on a team. Lots of people are doing what you are - that's probably where you got the cancer, but that makes it worse, not better. That makes it more important to lead in a different direction. The other option is to stand up and start contributing and leading. Our position is good: The good people outnumber the bad, by a lot; we've just been convinced to quit and spread that message among us. Stand up, get to work, get organized, like all the prior generations have done. What will be our legacy to future generations?: 'We quit. We didn't do anything. It was hard. We felt hopeless.' Imagine if our predecessors had done that. Are we going to be the worst generation, or the best?
- pauldenton 3y ago
  Who is the enemy? Who is the worst generation and who is the best?
  - hulitu 3y ago
    > Who is the enemy? Who is the worst generation and who is the best? You don't watch the news ? Don't you ? /s
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      The news blithely paints its sanguine picture. It's a crisis. What do you do during the crisis, make sarcastic comments or act?
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    The clock is ticking while you procrastinate with these endless philosophical debates. Let's go!
    - pauldenton 3y ago
      I was just asking you to define your terms but I understand it's flowery language.
vivekd 3y ago
If we assume you're right and we are heading towards mass death and catastrophe - why is the solution to make software that uses less energy? Seems a little weak of a response to mass death? Why not something like cloud seeding with sulfates? https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2023/altering-our-clouds-has-warmed-our-waters/ https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2023/altering-our-clouds-... Why not the easy technical solution that doesn't relegate people to use less of a basic resource required for human development? I have so many questions like what are the actual projections and how do we know it's effects. What of past projections that failed. Where are we getting this claim of mass death, when is it expected. Does it account for changes like the fact that we phased out coal. Does it account for the fact that we recently reduced cooling sulphate in the atmosphere. The answer seems to be don't ask questions and if you do lots of people will die. That doesn't sound like science or good policy.
- polygamous_bat 3y ago
  > Why not something like cloud seeding with sulfates? Same reason we don’t reach for surgery every time anything in our body hurts: we want a least intrusive (for the planet) method rather than crazy ideas that we don’t know the consequence of. We know very well what happens when people use less carbon, there are plenty of countries on the world right now who are doing that. But no, if it’s not out of sci-fi it doesn’t tickle your fancy enough to try.
  - vivekd 3y ago
    So when we say we don't need surgery then are we conceding that there is no climate emergency and things might not be as catastrophic as they are sometimes made out to be. If we have time to look for less intrusive methods than cloud seeding maybe we have time to also look for less economically intrusive methods
  - PeterisP 3y ago
    We know very well what happens when we tell that people should use less carbon - they don't. From the perspective of what countries are willing to do, spending some billions of dollars on some technology is far more feasible than large cuts to energy consumption or restricting beef consumption.
ksec 3y ago
>But if you do read this, and you develop software, will you try to make your software use less energy? That would mean an outright ban on Electron Apps. But yes hopefully this sentiment will move forward. Optimising App is no longer just about performance.
throw_pm23 3y ago
My prediction is that it will not be some giant visible catastrophe like your analogy suggests, but a slow, continuous degradation over the span of decades and centuries (as it has been happening in fact already for the past few decades/centuries). People will be adapting, but the quality of life and the environment will get worse and worse. Those who will point it out and will dare to say we don't live in the best of times, will be mocked and accused of seeing the past with rose-tinted glasses.
WillPostForFood 3y ago
Not sure how the same group that is screaming about the existential threat can also be so active in blocking nuclear power. It can't help but appear the real goal is deindustrialization, not fighting climate change. Instead of making your software use less energy, help advocate for clean abundant cheap electricity.
Tade0 3y ago
> If people survive, will this time period and our selfish inaction be referred to with hatred and confusion by our descendants? How is WW I judged by people living today? Or the industrial revolution (both good and bad parts)? I suppose once there's no living memory of this event, it will be seen as "just humans being humans". Personally I think humanity will survive, but many of us - including me - will have a much lower lifespan and die of preventable (at least today) causes. The first modern heatwave in Europe killed in excess of 70k people. Subsequent ones didn't. I see myself as one of those poor bastards that will be caught in a new type of calamity before we adapt.

> it continues to do nothing > Not many will read this far, and that's OK. I can't force anyone. > try to make your software use less energy? I mean this in the best way, because I believe you want to solve the problem: That is the message of a quitter, and you are spreading your despair to the rest of the locker room. The enemy is celebrating your bizarre embrace and spread of their message. Nobody needs that cancer on a team. Lots of people are doing what you are - that's probably where you got the cancer, but that makes it worse, not better. That makes it more important to lead in a different direction. The other option is to stand up and start contributing and leading. Our position is good: The good people outnumber the bad, by a lot; we've just been convinced to quit and spread that message among us. Stand up, get to work, get organized, like all the prior generations have done. What will be our legacy to future generations?: 'We quit. We didn't do anything. It was hard. We felt hopeless.' Imagine if our predecessors had done that. Are we going to be the worst generation, or the best?

pauldenton 3y ago
Who is the enemy? Who is the worst generation and who is the best?
- hulitu 3y ago
  > Who is the enemy? Who is the worst generation and who is the best? You don't watch the news ? Don't you ? /s
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    The news blithely paints its sanguine picture. It's a crisis. What do you do during the crisis, make sarcastic comments or act?
- wolverine876 3y ago
  The clock is ticking while you procrastinate with these endless philosophical debates. Let's go!
  - pauldenton 3y ago
    I was just asking you to define your terms but I understand it's flowery language.

vivekd 3y ago

If we assume you're right and we are heading towards mass death and catastrophe - why is the solution to make software that uses less energy? Seems a little weak of a response to mass death? Why not something like cloud seeding with sulfates? https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2023/altering-our-clouds-has-warmed-our-waters/ https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2023/altering-our-clouds-... Why not the easy technical solution that doesn't relegate people to use less of a basic resource required for human development? I have so many questions like what are the actual projections and how do we know it's effects. What of past projections that failed. Where are we getting this claim of mass death, when is it expected. Does it account for changes like the fact that we phased out coal. Does it account for the fact that we recently reduced cooling sulphate in the atmosphere. The answer seems to be don't ask questions and if you do lots of people will die. That doesn't sound like science or good policy.

polygamous_bat 3y ago
> Why not something like cloud seeding with sulfates? Same reason we don’t reach for surgery every time anything in our body hurts: we want a least intrusive (for the planet) method rather than crazy ideas that we don’t know the consequence of. We know very well what happens when people use less carbon, there are plenty of countries on the world right now who are doing that. But no, if it’s not out of sci-fi it doesn’t tickle your fancy enough to try.
- vivekd 3y ago
  So when we say we don't need surgery then are we conceding that there is no climate emergency and things might not be as catastrophic as they are sometimes made out to be. If we have time to look for less intrusive methods than cloud seeding maybe we have time to also look for less economically intrusive methods
- PeterisP 3y ago
  We know very well what happens when we tell that people should use less carbon - they don't. From the perspective of what countries are willing to do, spending some billions of dollars on some technology is far more feasible than large cuts to energy consumption or restricting beef consumption.

ksec 3y ago

>But if you do read this, and you develop software, will you try to make your software use less energy? That would mean an outright ban on Electron Apps. But yes hopefully this sentiment will move forward. Optimising App is no longer just about performance.

throw_pm23 3y ago

My prediction is that it will not be some giant visible catastrophe like your analogy suggests, but a slow, continuous degradation over the span of decades and centuries (as it has been happening in fact already for the past few decades/centuries). People will be adapting, but the quality of life and the environment will get worse and worse. Those who will point it out and will dare to say we don't live in the best of times, will be mocked and accused of seeing the past with rose-tinted glasses.

WillPostForFood 3y ago

Not sure how the same group that is screaming about the existential threat can also be so active in blocking nuclear power. It can't help but appear the real goal is deindustrialization, not fighting climate change. Instead of making your software use less energy, help advocate for clean abundant cheap electricity.

Tade0 3y ago

> If people survive, will this time period and our selfish inaction be referred to with hatred and confusion by our descendants? How is WW I judged by people living today? Or the industrial revolution (both good and bad parts)? I suppose once there's no living memory of this event, it will be seen as "just humans being humans". Personally I think humanity will survive, but many of us - including me - will have a much lower lifespan and die of preventable (at least today) causes. The first modern heatwave in Europe killed in excess of 70k people. Subsequent ones didn't. I see myself as one of those poor bastards that will be caught in a new type of calamity before we adapt.