4 ms·

This rings of "get off m'lawn" vibes. As a gen Z myself, I question what's wrong with "tiktok ravers" wanting to dress up and enjoy music? The whole genre will

This rings of "get off m'lawn" vibes. As a gen Z myself, I question what's wrong with "tiktok ravers" wanting to dress up and enjoy music? The whole genre will fade away if it doesn't curate to the next generation, as the originals get too creaky to dance.

RamblingCTO 3y ago
I don't care. Before, people would look out for each other and treat everyone with respect, regardless of clothing and style. Tik Tok ravers tend do to the opposite. Let people die on the fucking curb, being an asshat, just go to raves to take all drugs at once. I'm no the only one who thinks that way. This is a very big debate, especially in Germany. So what's wrong with tik tok ravers? They bring their fucking consumerism into a culture that they don't care for, destroying it in the process. If you want to look into this more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WauGLIefYrg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WauGLIefYrg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk6wqKqygDw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk6wqKqygDw watch with subs if needed.
- jdietrich 3y ago
  If you were to ask a British raver of a certain age, they'd tell you that Berghain and Kit Kat in their prime were nothing compared to Shelley's Laserdome, Bagley's or the Doncaster Warehouse, which were themselves pale imitations of the summer of '89.
  - jamiek88 3y ago
    Yeah i was thinking back to Cream (and other nights) at Nation in Liverpool early nineties and the Manchester scene. Mates dj’d downstairs at Baa Bar and we were just kids really. Some fucking great times. Fucked my hearing though, wear earplugs at the rave, kids.
- dartharva 3y ago
  I bet an exactly similar kind of oversimplified, nitpicking rant must have been made for the punk culture of your time by your elders, and the same for them, ad infinitum. There seems to be a psycho-social aspect to these generational agitations, whatever new thing the young ones bring will always be seen in the worst possible way by their elders in every generation.
  - uoaei 3y ago
    FWIW I was at a punk/metal show this weekend and the crowd skewed younger and it kinda sucked. No one seemed to be enjoying themselves. It felt like they just wanted to be seen there. My friend commented that it felt like church which was hilarious considering the setting (and accurate). Hardcore shows at squats still live on though, and people are there to enjoy for sure. But that's because if you don't like the music and setting you would leave pretty quickly. I tend to think this kind of self-filtering system is more effective than bouncers at the door, but at the same time, consumers be consumin, and they glom onto faddy subcultures just long enough to completely hollow them out. There's arguments to be made for curating the spaces that art resides and thrives in.
  - bowsamic 3y ago
    You can use this to argue against literally any new social problem. Sometimes it is actually true that the newer generations are doing something wrong, you know?
    - dartharva 3y ago
      So you say...
      - bowsamic 3y ago
        So are you going to go all the way with your reasoning and claim that there has never been an actual social problem ever?
        dartharva 3y ago
        No, I am claiming that no matter what the kids do, it will always be "wrong" for you, just because they are kids and you are not.
        bowsamic 3y ago
        Okay, well you are wrong about that.
Incipient 3y ago
>The whole genre will fade away if it doesn't curate to the next generation, If a genre, or ideal, "curates" to the next generation, is it even still that ideal? Is that not still just fading away, or at worst, selling out?
capableweb 3y ago
The problem is not being dressing up, the problem is dressing up and then doing photo ops in areas where usually you don't really wanna be photographed. There always been an expectation of privacy on the dance floor at more underground places, but people seem to be getting a bit more shameless regarding not caring about the privacy of others.
bormaj 3y ago
> wanting to dress up and enjoy the music In my experience in the scene, these types of people enter these spaces looking to be seen and aren't really there for the music (think taking flash photos of themselves in front of the DJs, taking up space on the dancefloor not dancing or vibing to the music, etc). I have strong opinions on this, but don't get me wrong, there's a bit of gatekeeping for a good reason. The point is that people who are actually interested in the scene are more likely to respect it and contribute to the involved communities. Whereas a tik-tok raver's interest is likely fleeting and uninformed about the spaces they occupy.
kredd 3y ago
I’m not that much older, but it adds to the “barrier to entries to have fun”. If a place perceived as “wear whatever, do whatever” turns into “look good in specific type of outfit”, it just loses potential customers. I’ve been around, including some of the aforementioned clubs, and at least for me that has been the case. Now I just avoid specific places in the world as I can’t be bothered to “fit in”. Don’t get me wrong, I still like those kind of partying as well from time to time, but treating an average rave as a dress up dancing is way too much work for me. Also underground scene pretty much everywhere in the world is extremely alive and doing well, but became so much more protective of itself for the same reason. Why would you go somewhere at 2am with a chance of overcrowding and being filmed, when you can go somewhere where you can dance till 6am, albeit only 60% of the fun?
bjorglo 3y ago
I went to my first party in 1994. This type of conversation has always been a constant. I remember people at that time complaining that it was bullshit the DJ wasn't behind a curtain like the good ol days. Even being able to see the DJ made the party too much like a rock concert and "it was ruining the scene" There was a whole era of conversation like this that was against spinning compact discs and cdjs. A real DJ spins vinyl. CDs sound too cold and sterile and they are "ruining the scene". When people started spinning mp3s? lol, that was apocalyptic and totally "ruining the scene". 20 years from now there will be something new "ruining the scene" unlike the good old days when people put a lot of effort into their outfit and crafted videos to post on tiktok to try to promote "the scene".
friendzis 3y ago
The core problem with "bring camera to venue" and subsequently "tiktok ravers" is inversion of relationship between the crowd and event. Before mass media you went to e.g. theatrical play or cinema to passively consume "content", whereas all the festivals were in large part made by partygoers. The more niche the rave, the more of the atmosphere is/was created by the attendees. The job of a DJ in a rave was largely to control the rhythm and the flow. Partygoers with cameras reduce this relationship to simple consumerism, largely consumption of content. The more passive attendees there are, the larger the pressure is on the venue to make or break the party. Tiktok ravers are just more egregious iteration of the thing.
- Difwif 3y ago
  While I don't like the phone use just as much as you do wouldn't they be adding to the event in their own way based on their outfits? You may not like it but it is a unique form of expression that adds to the experience.

RamblingCTO 3y ago

I don't care. Before, people would look out for each other and treat everyone with respect, regardless of clothing and style. Tik Tok ravers tend do to the opposite. Let people die on the fucking curb, being an asshat, just go to raves to take all drugs at once. I'm no the only one who thinks that way. This is a very big debate, especially in Germany. So what's wrong with tik tok ravers? They bring their fucking consumerism into a culture that they don't care for, destroying it in the process. If you want to look into this more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WauGLIefYrg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WauGLIefYrg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk6wqKqygDw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk6wqKqygDw watch with subs if needed.

jdietrich 3y ago
If you were to ask a British raver of a certain age, they'd tell you that Berghain and Kit Kat in their prime were nothing compared to Shelley's Laserdome, Bagley's or the Doncaster Warehouse, which were themselves pale imitations of the summer of '89.
- jamiek88 3y ago
  Yeah i was thinking back to Cream (and other nights) at Nation in Liverpool early nineties and the Manchester scene. Mates dj’d downstairs at Baa Bar and we were just kids really. Some fucking great times. Fucked my hearing though, wear earplugs at the rave, kids.
dartharva 3y ago
I bet an exactly similar kind of oversimplified, nitpicking rant must have been made for the punk culture of your time by your elders, and the same for them, ad infinitum. There seems to be a psycho-social aspect to these generational agitations, whatever new thing the young ones bring will always be seen in the worst possible way by their elders in every generation.
- uoaei 3y ago
  FWIW I was at a punk/metal show this weekend and the crowd skewed younger and it kinda sucked. No one seemed to be enjoying themselves. It felt like they just wanted to be seen there. My friend commented that it felt like church which was hilarious considering the setting (and accurate). Hardcore shows at squats still live on though, and people are there to enjoy for sure. But that's because if you don't like the music and setting you would leave pretty quickly. I tend to think this kind of self-filtering system is more effective than bouncers at the door, but at the same time, consumers be consumin, and they glom onto faddy subcultures just long enough to completely hollow them out. There's arguments to be made for curating the spaces that art resides and thrives in.
- bowsamic 3y ago
  You can use this to argue against literally any new social problem. Sometimes it is actually true that the newer generations are doing something wrong, you know?
  - dartharva 3y ago
    So you say...
    - bowsamic 3y ago
      So are you going to go all the way with your reasoning and claim that there has never been an actual social problem ever?
      - dartharva 3y ago
        No, I am claiming that no matter what the kids do, it will always be "wrong" for you, just because they are kids and you are not.
        bowsamic 3y ago
        Okay, well you are wrong about that.

Incipient 3y ago

>The whole genre will fade away if it doesn't curate to the next generation, If a genre, or ideal, "curates" to the next generation, is it even still that ideal? Is that not still just fading away, or at worst, selling out?

capableweb 3y ago

The problem is not being dressing up, the problem is dressing up and then doing photo ops in areas where usually you don't really wanna be photographed. There always been an expectation of privacy on the dance floor at more underground places, but people seem to be getting a bit more shameless regarding not caring about the privacy of others.

bormaj 3y ago

> wanting to dress up and enjoy the music In my experience in the scene, these types of people enter these spaces looking to be seen and aren't really there for the music (think taking flash photos of themselves in front of the DJs, taking up space on the dancefloor not dancing or vibing to the music, etc). I have strong opinions on this, but don't get me wrong, there's a bit of gatekeeping for a good reason. The point is that people who are actually interested in the scene are more likely to respect it and contribute to the involved communities. Whereas a tik-tok raver's interest is likely fleeting and uninformed about the spaces they occupy.

kredd 3y ago

I’m not that much older, but it adds to the “barrier to entries to have fun”. If a place perceived as “wear whatever, do whatever” turns into “look good in specific type of outfit”, it just loses potential customers. I’ve been around, including some of the aforementioned clubs, and at least for me that has been the case. Now I just avoid specific places in the world as I can’t be bothered to “fit in”. Don’t get me wrong, I still like those kind of partying as well from time to time, but treating an average rave as a dress up dancing is way too much work for me. Also underground scene pretty much everywhere in the world is extremely alive and doing well, but became so much more protective of itself for the same reason. Why would you go somewhere at 2am with a chance of overcrowding and being filmed, when you can go somewhere where you can dance till 6am, albeit only 60% of the fun?

bjorglo 3y ago

I went to my first party in 1994. This type of conversation has always been a constant. I remember people at that time complaining that it was bullshit the DJ wasn't behind a curtain like the good ol days. Even being able to see the DJ made the party too much like a rock concert and "it was ruining the scene" There was a whole era of conversation like this that was against spinning compact discs and cdjs. A real DJ spins vinyl. CDs sound too cold and sterile and they are "ruining the scene". When people started spinning mp3s? lol, that was apocalyptic and totally "ruining the scene". 20 years from now there will be something new "ruining the scene" unlike the good old days when people put a lot of effort into their outfit and crafted videos to post on tiktok to try to promote "the scene".

friendzis 3y ago

The core problem with "bring camera to venue" and subsequently "tiktok ravers" is inversion of relationship between the crowd and event. Before mass media you went to e.g. theatrical play or cinema to passively consume "content", whereas all the festivals were in large part made by partygoers. The more niche the rave, the more of the atmosphere is/was created by the attendees. The job of a DJ in a rave was largely to control the rhythm and the flow. Partygoers with cameras reduce this relationship to simple consumerism, largely consumption of content. The more passive attendees there are, the larger the pressure is on the venue to make or break the party. Tiktok ravers are just more egregious iteration of the thing.

Difwif 3y ago
While I don't like the phone use just as much as you do wouldn't they be adding to the event in their own way based on their outfits? You may not like it but it is a unique form of expression that adds to the experience.