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I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make. The people in the US are linked to each other by history, culture, language, and a million other things th

I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make. The people in the US are linked to each other by history, culture, language, and a million other things that they don’t have to a random group of people halfway around the globe. I don’t know what is so complicated or difficult to understand about this.

roenxi 3y ago
The idea that these 128 lives are different from any other 128 lives in, say, Central Africa is precisely a result of propaganda. Arguably the beneficial kind. You'll find that you haven't actually addressed that point. Unless you are suggesting that the US was so inbred that all of them were close family members and relations of the people onboard the ship [0]. There isn't any way to know that you're in the same group as those randoms without some serious social legwork explaining that the group exists to everyone, slowly, multiple times, over an extended period. The technical term for that explaining is propaganda. It isn't a truth of natural law, it is very much a social construct. [0] And, even if they were, there'd still be a lot of connection to other European countries like Germany by similar logic.
- keiferski 3y ago
  People tend to care more about people that share the same language, culture, history, and geographical proximity. They tend to care less about people they have no such connection with or are not aware of at all. Again, I really, truly, have absolutely no clue as to why this is so difficult to understand. People can feel a connection to others that they share characteristics with, without it being a deliberate, top-down propagandistic effort. And as I said in my original comment, the opposite thing (universalism) is actually what must be propagandized [1] in order to spread, as tribalism is, for lack of a better word, the "default." 1. I'm not using the word in a negative sense here, as I generally think it's a good thing.
  - roenxi 3y ago
    > language, culture, history, and geographical proximity English, the language of England? European culture, with a heavy and detectable German tradition? Population with a history of maybe a century or so in America and millennia of habitation mainly on the Eurasian landmass + Africa? It probably took a lot of propaganda to forge an independent US identity out of that and make it care enough about a small number of deaths to take it personally instead of just interpreting it as more-or-less-the-same-people squabbling violently. The only thing your argument that it occurred naturally has going for it is geography - and the US is damn huge so I don't think that is persuasive. I mean, we all love the US sense of togetherness. But it took (and takes) a lot of work to make it happen and it is purposefully nurtured and backed up by a lot of organised propaganda.

roenxi 3y ago

The idea that these 128 lives are different from any other 128 lives in, say, Central Africa is precisely a result of propaganda. Arguably the beneficial kind. You'll find that you haven't actually addressed that point. Unless you are suggesting that the US was so inbred that all of them were close family members and relations of the people onboard the ship [0]. There isn't any way to know that you're in the same group as those randoms without some serious social legwork explaining that the group exists to everyone, slowly, multiple times, over an extended period. The technical term for that explaining is propaganda. It isn't a truth of natural law, it is very much a social construct. [0] And, even if they were, there'd still be a lot of connection to other European countries like Germany by similar logic.

keiferski 3y ago
People tend to care more about people that share the same language, culture, history, and geographical proximity. They tend to care less about people they have no such connection with or are not aware of at all. Again, I really, truly, have absolutely no clue as to why this is so difficult to understand. People can feel a connection to others that they share characteristics with, without it being a deliberate, top-down propagandistic effort. And as I said in my original comment, the opposite thing (universalism) is actually what must be propagandized [1] in order to spread, as tribalism is, for lack of a better word, the "default." 1. I'm not using the word in a negative sense here, as I generally think it's a good thing.
- roenxi 3y ago
  > language, culture, history, and geographical proximity English, the language of England? European culture, with a heavy and detectable German tradition? Population with a history of maybe a century or so in America and millennia of habitation mainly on the Eurasian landmass + Africa? It probably took a lot of propaganda to forge an independent US identity out of that and make it care enough about a small number of deaths to take it personally instead of just interpreting it as more-or-less-the-same-people squabbling violently. The only thing your argument that it occurred naturally has going for it is geography - and the US is damn huge so I don't think that is persuasive. I mean, we all love the US sense of togetherness. But it took (and takes) a lot of work to make it happen and it is purposefully nurtured and backed up by a lot of organised propaganda.