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> The further away you get the less I care and doing otherwise involves propaganda. That is also obvious since you need to focus your care. We're not talking a

> The further away you get the less I care and doing otherwise involves propaganda. That is also obvious since you need to focus your care. We're not talking about people caring more about their family and neighbours than someone in Central Africa (or England, since we're talking about WWI) though. We're talking about people being extremely angry about people born hundred or even thousands of miles away that they would never have met dying even further away in circumstances they'd never find themselves in, because the news points out that unlike the much larger number of fellow white English-speaking Christians that might be very distant relatives dying in the same faraway conflict (and on the same boat) they're American...

keiferski 3y ago
Yes, a nation is a thing that unites people via culture, geography, and (more historically) genetics. I'm not sure why that's controversial?
- Larrikin 3y ago
  Historically speaking, where are you making the cut off point for genetics and in which countries? Only countries that are on the map in 2023?
  - keiferski 3y ago
    I don't understand your question. I'm not making any cut-off point, I just said that it was more common in the past for a citizens of a nation to be genetically linked to each other. Certainly that still applies to many countries today.
    - oa335 3y ago
      I’m sorry , I don’t believe that is true. Do you have any sources for your claim? Historically empires had been multi ethnic and multi lingual; with rise of nationalism in mid 1800s onwards we start seeing large population transfers and ethnic cleansing, and forced acculturation, leading to a world today where many modern nation states have only one “ethnic group”. E.g. 150 years ago there used to be many German speaking villages in what is now Poland. There used to be many Turkish speaking locales in Greece, etc etc.
      - keiferski 3y ago
        It obviously depends on where and when, but I think you’d have a difficult time finding any past empires that are as genetically diverse as contemporary Canada, USA, etc. Even as wide spread as say, Rome or the Ottoman Empire were, they had little-to-no representation of Chinese, Japanese, South American, Indian, and so on. Germans and Poles are more similar to each other than Indians and Colombians.
        thrway63245 3y ago
        [dead]
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  > a nation is a thing Even that there is the result a couple centuries of propaganda. Again, propaganda isn't false, just promoting a certain viewpoint or perception. That you share anything with people living hundreds of miles away in one direction, but not in another, is not a conclusion you came to without help.
  - notahacker 3y ago
    And whilst nationhood can have tangible effects on your life (you might live in a US city closer to Tijuana than Ohio, but opinions and issues in Ohio are having more impact on who governs you), in this case caring most of all about the people closest to you tends towards having the opposite position on US entry into the war. Its the choice between clamouring to send a bunch of people from your hometown to Europe to avenge the deaths of a small number of people you'd never met who weren't targeted because of anything they may or may not have had in common with you, or not. Takes a lot of talking up American identity and the threat to all of us and what wonderful and inspirational people the Germans have killed to convince you that avenging these strangers is worth a death or two in your own community or family. (I say this as a Brit who thinks that the US speeding up the end of the conflict was a good thing, Fwiw)

keiferski 3y ago

Yes, a nation is a thing that unites people via culture, geography, and (more historically) genetics. I'm not sure why that's controversial?

Larrikin 3y ago
Historically speaking, where are you making the cut off point for genetics and in which countries? Only countries that are on the map in 2023?
- keiferski 3y ago
  I don't understand your question. I'm not making any cut-off point, I just said that it was more common in the past for a citizens of a nation to be genetically linked to each other. Certainly that still applies to many countries today.
  - oa335 3y ago
    I’m sorry , I don’t believe that is true. Do you have any sources for your claim? Historically empires had been multi ethnic and multi lingual; with rise of nationalism in mid 1800s onwards we start seeing large population transfers and ethnic cleansing, and forced acculturation, leading to a world today where many modern nation states have only one “ethnic group”. E.g. 150 years ago there used to be many German speaking villages in what is now Poland. There used to be many Turkish speaking locales in Greece, etc etc.
    - keiferski 3y ago
      It obviously depends on where and when, but I think you’d have a difficult time finding any past empires that are as genetically diverse as contemporary Canada, USA, etc. Even as wide spread as say, Rome or the Ottoman Empire were, they had little-to-no representation of Chinese, Japanese, South American, Indian, and so on. Germans and Poles are more similar to each other than Indians and Colombians.
      - thrway63245 3y ago
        [dead]
giraffe_lady 3y ago
> a nation is a thing Even that there is the result a couple centuries of propaganda. Again, propaganda isn't false, just promoting a certain viewpoint or perception. That you share anything with people living hundreds of miles away in one direction, but not in another, is not a conclusion you came to without help.
- notahacker 3y ago
  And whilst nationhood can have tangible effects on your life (you might live in a US city closer to Tijuana than Ohio, but opinions and issues in Ohio are having more impact on who governs you), in this case caring most of all about the people closest to you tends towards having the opposite position on US entry into the war. Its the choice between clamouring to send a bunch of people from your hometown to Europe to avenge the deaths of a small number of people you'd never met who weren't targeted because of anything they may or may not have had in common with you, or not. Takes a lot of talking up American identity and the threat to all of us and what wonderful and inspirational people the Germans have killed to convince you that avenging these strangers is worth a death or two in your own community or family. (I say this as a Brit who thinks that the US speeding up the end of the conflict was a good thing, Fwiw)