5 ms·

"Diet, exercise, natural compounds, or a combination of the three, may be able to stimulate mitochondrial function, but whether or not they are effective for pa

by sireat 3y ago

"Diet, exercise, natural compounds, or a combination of the three, may be able to stimulate mitochondrial function, but whether or not they are effective for patients with long COVID is yet to be known." What are those natural compounds? Vitamin D, and so on? This is not a fun read when you've just got Covid for the 2nd time. This as I was about to get vaccinated for the 4th time... The worst is that official doctor's advice is just to lay low, drink plenty of liquids and hope for the best. PS Oh I am allowed to lower the temperature by ibuprofen or paracetomol but I figure I'd rather stay around 37.5 to help the fight than lower it. Then again, maybe the temperature in acute phase does not matter and I am suffering needlessly?

_heimdall 3y ago
So doctors ended up treating this like the common cold after all? That's honestly very frustrating to me personally. So much was spent to push the argument that Covid shouldn't be viewed as a common cold because its so much worse for you. That was part of the justification for closing business and schools, limiting travel, and preventing families from visiting sick or elderly relatives in hospitals and nursing homes. Now its all back to normal and Covid is just another cold worthy of rest, hydration, and ibuprofen for a fever.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  haven’t seen this take in a while over summer I met a woman that had just come out of her prepper bunker all she could talk about was her discontent with big pharma and guided plans from billionaires, although not a fan of vaccines she was a fan of the personal responsibility approach of staying away from all of us enlightened and possibly infected (or vaccinated) rubes, that’s always a choice! too bad she was running out of money 3 years later and had to get a job. I met her at her job and asked her out successfully, our date was the same day where I learned this is all she reads about on the internet it was so funny, didnt expect to see that in 2023
  - _heimdall 3y ago
    Hah, yeah that's an interesting one for sure. Sounds effectively like the plot of a Brendan Fraser, just replace Covid with nuclear fallout. Can't say that I consider myself a prepper, and definitely not to the extent of having a bomb shelter stocked with years of rations. I can see the view I raised here being more common in the prepped space, though to me it feels more like a rational retrospective (I'm biased obviously). So much effort was put into making it clear that Covid wasn't similar to a common cold, to the point of labeling such a comparison and the person making it as dangerous. If that really is how medical specialists treat it now, it seems worthwhile for us (or at least those who made such claims) to revisit how they got it that wrong. Maybe it comes down to simply learning more since then, which is totally reasonable but also something that could have been expected and led to a more reasoned and less certain message earlier on.
    - dent9876543 3y ago
      It doesn't come down to 'simply learning'. There's an inherent bias towards extreme risk aversion, conservatism and NIH syndrome in the expert groups that the UK government consulted. I'd love to think that such a smart group of talented individuals could self-correct, but I don't think many have yet seen their error. Three years is already too long to wait.
      - _heimdall 3y ago
        I wouldn't expect many political or medical leaders to own the over reaction or simply fear they may very well have felt. I seriously hope they've learned something though, I really don't want to see us thrown through another run of lockdowns, closures, and in some places forced vaccinations because leaders didn't learn to keep a level head and understand the risks before claiming to be certain of what is happening and will happen in the future.
        junofan 3y ago
        Speaking from experience it was just the crazy leaking out into the real world. The top guys have been fighting over which way the sky is falling for 40 years. I was pretty surprised others didn’t pick up on it.
- mpol 3y ago
  Sorry to say, but I don't understand why you don't understand something so simple (probably I am rude). In the last three years there have been many strains of Covid. Of each one we didn't know if it would be more contageous and if it would make more people sick ( and dead). It turned out most strains of Covid did turn out to become more contageous, and thus the then dominant strain. They also, mostly or even all, made people less severe sick and caused less deaths. If you get Covid today, it is not like getting Covid in June 2020. Strains are heading towards the other coronaviruses, you mostly get the common cold. That common cold can still be ugly, but not many people will have to go to the hospital for it or die from it.
  - _heimdall 3y ago
    There isn't a clear way to compare infectivity or severity of disease when the virus is a novel pathogen versus one that we have lived with for three years now. I'm not sure why we would expect that absolute risk of severe disease or death would be the same whether you've been previously infected or not. Its absolutely possible, and even makes sense evolutionarily, that the virus would trend towards higher infectivity and lower mortality over time. I don't disagree with that at all, and ironically I recall that also being an idea that was considered dangerous and wrong early on. My argument remains though, if the virus in 2020 couldn't be compared to the common cold and it was effectively blasphemous to do so it seems crazy to me that this would be accepted practice now. The sheer amount of both genetic and symptomatic differences required to make a deadly virus turn into a cold virus should warrant classifying it as a different virus and disease entirely.
- bluenomatterwho 3y ago
  Endorsed by Martha Stewart! 'This flu season, ask your doctor if covid is right for you.' The copy has shifted to 'this endorsement is not intended to replace a conversation with a health professional.'
garganzol 3y ago
> What are those natural compounds? Vitamin D, and so on? The coenzymes and minerals participating in the Krebs cycle: B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B7, B9, B12, C, L-carnitine, Q10, magnesium plus some others. This is from the top of my head, but you will find more info if you look deeper. Some of the coenzymes are instrumental for metabolic pathways: B1, B3, and B7. To overcome an acquired metabolic dysfunction, those key coenzymes are usually needed in therapeutical quantities, while others just in RDA doses. Related diseases: beri-beri, pellagra. P.S. If your body temp is lower than 38 C then it's usually not worth to suppress it.
minorannoyance2 3y ago
I am not a doctor so treat this with caution, but from personal experience and limited medical understanding ibuprofen doesn't just "lower the temperature" and keeping the temperature high is not "helping the fight" in any meaningful and universal way. You will feel worse with the higher temps and even worse if you get a headache or muscle pains from covid, this will be an additional strain on your body, taking ibuprofen 2-3 times a day (with a 2-4h half life it lasts up to 6 hours realistically) for the worst 2-5 days of covid should usually help with this. Unless you have access to covid specific medication (to which most people won't have access for years or ever) it's hard to see how the official advice could be different.
- rsync 3y ago
  I, also, am not a doctor, etc. In [1] the author, who is a doctor, "... plead(s) for recognition that fever may be used as a non-specific treatment of flu. The fever is not just an unpleasant symptom of flu but a crucial part of the body's defence mechanism that should be encouraged". He generalizes this beyond just influenza: "Infectious organisms are adapted to the temperature of the part of the body they colonise, so it follows that they will grow best at that temperature. Rhinoviruses, which infect the cooler upper airway and sinuses, grow best between 33° C and 35° C, so inhaling air at about 45° C for 20 minutes will much improve the symptoms of a common cold.2 Conversely, treating the common cold with aspirin causes an increase in the rate of production of the virus." The author summarizes: "A famous 17th century physician, Thomas Sydenham, said, “Fever is nature's engine which she brings into the field to remove her enemy.” The public and the medical profession have still not realised the full importance and potential of this statement." [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC529400/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC529400/

by sireat 3y ago

_heimdall 3y ago

So doctors ended up treating this like the common cold after all? That's honestly very frustrating to me personally. So much was spent to push the argument that Covid shouldn't be viewed as a common cold because its so much worse for you. That was part of the justification for closing business and schools, limiting travel, and preventing families from visiting sick or elderly relatives in hospitals and nursing homes. Now its all back to normal and Covid is just another cold worthy of rest, hydration, and ibuprofen for a fever.

yieldcrv 3y ago
haven’t seen this take in a while over summer I met a woman that had just come out of her prepper bunker all she could talk about was her discontent with big pharma and guided plans from billionaires, although not a fan of vaccines she was a fan of the personal responsibility approach of staying away from all of us enlightened and possibly infected (or vaccinated) rubes, that’s always a choice! too bad she was running out of money 3 years later and had to get a job. I met her at her job and asked her out successfully, our date was the same day where I learned this is all she reads about on the internet it was so funny, didnt expect to see that in 2023
- _heimdall 3y ago
  Hah, yeah that's an interesting one for sure. Sounds effectively like the plot of a Brendan Fraser, just replace Covid with nuclear fallout. Can't say that I consider myself a prepper, and definitely not to the extent of having a bomb shelter stocked with years of rations. I can see the view I raised here being more common in the prepped space, though to me it feels more like a rational retrospective (I'm biased obviously). So much effort was put into making it clear that Covid wasn't similar to a common cold, to the point of labeling such a comparison and the person making it as dangerous. If that really is how medical specialists treat it now, it seems worthwhile for us (or at least those who made such claims) to revisit how they got it that wrong. Maybe it comes down to simply learning more since then, which is totally reasonable but also something that could have been expected and led to a more reasoned and less certain message earlier on.
  - dent9876543 3y ago
    It doesn't come down to 'simply learning'. There's an inherent bias towards extreme risk aversion, conservatism and NIH syndrome in the expert groups that the UK government consulted. I'd love to think that such a smart group of talented individuals could self-correct, but I don't think many have yet seen their error. Three years is already too long to wait.
    - _heimdall 3y ago
      I wouldn't expect many political or medical leaders to own the over reaction or simply fear they may very well have felt. I seriously hope they've learned something though, I really don't want to see us thrown through another run of lockdowns, closures, and in some places forced vaccinations because leaders didn't learn to keep a level head and understand the risks before claiming to be certain of what is happening and will happen in the future.
      - junofan 3y ago
        Speaking from experience it was just the crazy leaking out into the real world. The top guys have been fighting over which way the sky is falling for 40 years. I was pretty surprised others didn’t pick up on it.
mpol 3y ago
Sorry to say, but I don't understand why you don't understand something so simple (probably I am rude). In the last three years there have been many strains of Covid. Of each one we didn't know if it would be more contageous and if it would make more people sick ( and dead). It turned out most strains of Covid did turn out to become more contageous, and thus the then dominant strain. They also, mostly or even all, made people less severe sick and caused less deaths. If you get Covid today, it is not like getting Covid in June 2020. Strains are heading towards the other coronaviruses, you mostly get the common cold. That common cold can still be ugly, but not many people will have to go to the hospital for it or die from it.
- _heimdall 3y ago
  There isn't a clear way to compare infectivity or severity of disease when the virus is a novel pathogen versus one that we have lived with for three years now. I'm not sure why we would expect that absolute risk of severe disease or death would be the same whether you've been previously infected or not. Its absolutely possible, and even makes sense evolutionarily, that the virus would trend towards higher infectivity and lower mortality over time. I don't disagree with that at all, and ironically I recall that also being an idea that was considered dangerous and wrong early on. My argument remains though, if the virus in 2020 couldn't be compared to the common cold and it was effectively blasphemous to do so it seems crazy to me that this would be accepted practice now. The sheer amount of both genetic and symptomatic differences required to make a deadly virus turn into a cold virus should warrant classifying it as a different virus and disease entirely.
bluenomatterwho 3y ago
Endorsed by Martha Stewart! 'This flu season, ask your doctor if covid is right for you.' The copy has shifted to 'this endorsement is not intended to replace a conversation with a health professional.'

garganzol 3y ago

> What are those natural compounds? Vitamin D, and so on? The coenzymes and minerals participating in the Krebs cycle: B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B7, B9, B12, C, L-carnitine, Q10, magnesium plus some others. This is from the top of my head, but you will find more info if you look deeper. Some of the coenzymes are instrumental for metabolic pathways: B1, B3, and B7. To overcome an acquired metabolic dysfunction, those key coenzymes are usually needed in therapeutical quantities, while others just in RDA doses. Related diseases: beri-beri, pellagra. P.S. If your body temp is lower than 38 C then it's usually not worth to suppress it.

minorannoyance2 3y ago

I am not a doctor so treat this with caution, but from personal experience and limited medical understanding ibuprofen doesn't just "lower the temperature" and keeping the temperature high is not "helping the fight" in any meaningful and universal way. You will feel worse with the higher temps and even worse if you get a headache or muscle pains from covid, this will be an additional strain on your body, taking ibuprofen 2-3 times a day (with a 2-4h half life it lasts up to 6 hours realistically) for the worst 2-5 days of covid should usually help with this. Unless you have access to covid specific medication (to which most people won't have access for years or ever) it's hard to see how the official advice could be different.

rsync 3y ago
I, also, am not a doctor, etc. In [1] the author, who is a doctor, "... plead(s) for recognition that fever may be used as a non-specific treatment of flu. The fever is not just an unpleasant symptom of flu but a crucial part of the body's defence mechanism that should be encouraged". He generalizes this beyond just influenza: "Infectious organisms are adapted to the temperature of the part of the body they colonise, so it follows that they will grow best at that temperature. Rhinoviruses, which infect the cooler upper airway and sinuses, grow best between 33° C and 35° C, so inhaling air at about 45° C for 20 minutes will much improve the symptoms of a common cold.2 Conversely, treating the common cold with aspirin causes an increase in the rate of production of the virus." The author summarizes: "A famous 17th century physician, Thomas Sydenham, said, “Fever is nature's engine which she brings into the field to remove her enemy.” The public and the medical profession have still not realised the full importance and potential of this statement." [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC529400/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC529400/