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The biggest problem isn’t right turn on red. It’s the rising percentages of massive SUVs and jacked up trucks where the hood is so high they can’t see pedestria

by s1mon 3y ago

The biggest problem isn’t right turn on red. It’s the rising percentages of massive SUVs and jacked up trucks where the hood is so high they can’t see pedestrians and the bumpers are higher and instead of pedestrians flying over the hoods, more force gets transferred into bodies and then possibly run over.

peterlk 3y ago
Hear! hear! Why don’t we just start rolling back truck subsidies? If that’s not enough, maybe start incentivizing cars that aren’t tanks. The world is not more safe when everyone drives a tank. This is a tragedy of the commons
- jeo123 3y ago
  NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Cybertruck is coming. Tesla needs that subsidy!
YokoZar 3y ago
Why not prohibit right on red for just these specific vehicles then?
- thatswrong0 3y ago
  I wish they would just make the licensing requirement stricter for driving these behemoth vehicles. But this would have to happen on a state by state basis..
- cryptoz 3y ago
  The real trick is actually enforcement. Nobody obeys the rules because none of the rules are enforced. So sure, make the law that prohibits just certain vehicles from doing a right on red. 100% guarantee you that the drivers of those cars will not obey the new rule and 100% guarantee you that cops won't enforce it.
cryptonector 3y ago
From TFA: | According to a national report by the Governors Highway Safety Association, more than 7,500 people walking were struck and killed by automobiles in 2022, the highest number since 1981. The spike, which included all accidents — not just those involving right turns on red, was attributed in part to an increase in larger vehicles such as SUVs and pickup trucks on the road. | The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety found that the odds a pedestrian would be killed when struck by an automobile turning right were 89% higher when the vehicle was a pickup and 63% higher when it was an SUV, due to larger blind spots and the deadlier force associated with heavier models. SUVs and pickups (I have a pickup, but I mostly only use it for activities that require a pickup) are extremely dangerous and should not be incentivized as they are by the current rules, and more, they should be taxed more heavily than sedans, coupes, and station wagons. Then a bit further down: | But Beeber said the National Motorists Association study of California found that even when there was an accident associated with right turns on red, at least 96% of the injuries sustained by pedestrians or cyclists were minor. Mr. Beeber is biased, and so is the NMA, so it's hard to say, but not much other data is offered regarding right-on-red injuries/fatalities, so I'm inclined to want to see more data before agreeing that we should ban right-on-red generally, or even in the cities as opposed to in areas with high pedestrian traffic. (Even where pedestrian traffic is high, it being high means drivers will tend to not miss them.) TFA makes a point of the dearth of data on right-on-red accidents. According to TFA there have been no new studies on the topic since 1994(!). I think the first step then would be to commission several studies. | “One injury or death is too many,” said Washington state Sen. John Lovick, the primary sponsor of a bill this year that would have prohibited right on red statewide near schools, parks and certain other locations. “If it were me at that intersection crossing, I would want something done.” This "one injury or death is too many" idea in general is very dangerous because it ignores unintended consequences completely. It's an idea that appeals to emotions rather than to reason.
daeros 3y ago
Americans and their oversized vehicles... I'm so glad to drive a fuel efficient sedan.
nunez 3y ago
it's partly that it's also people fucking scrolling on their fucking phones WHILE PERFORMING THE MANOEUVRE that's part of it or people not being used to seeing pedestrians because they live in sparse suburbs where nobody walks or goes outside, really, so they roll through that right on red as that's what they're used to driving is the fucking worst
xtiansimon 3y ago
Add to the dangerous vehicle weight window tinting. Maybe this is just a New York problem (certainly a NY regulation) illegally tinted windows greater than >30%. If you can’t see the driver, then you can’t be sure they see you.
lamontcg 3y ago
Not really. I've had people driving perfectly normal sedans with 1,000-yard stare off to their left as they're turning right on red, who don't see me at all as a pedestrian trying to walk across the crosswalk from their right. I first noticed this a few decades ago (before even iPhones). The average American doesn't understand the concept of "have your head on a swivel" and maintaining situational awareness of what is going on in two different directions. Or of just always be looking the direction that you're going (if you're about to stomp on the accelerator you better first be looking forward). The massive SUVs and trucks just make the problem worse, but they didn't start the problem. And that is apart from the horrible level of driver education, and education in general in the US, where a lot of drivers don't seem to understand that you actually need to stop for a right on red, or even that you need to yield to traffic from the left and just blow straight through the light.
- noahjk 3y ago
  This is my feeling as well. People are just trying to get where they’re going. That means, when turning on red, entering the intersection without stopping behind the line first. This almost always means driving straight through the crosswalk as well. And like you said, people have optimized their turning by staring left, prepared to barely even slow down before turning if the coast is clear. No thought is given to a potential pedestrian. Entering straight into intersections on a red light is an extremely bad habit that the US has. Along with getting rid of right turns on red (80% of pop would still do it), some countries also move the traffic lights to the close side of the street (above the traffic it controls, as opposed to across the intersection), forcing cars to stop further back to be able to see the light. I think that would be a huge impact to traffic patterns that is more physics based rather than legislature based.
  - lamontcg 3y ago
    Yeah the biggest factor on making it worse isn't iPhones or big SUVs but just increasing narcissism (although the factors seem to be multiplicative).

by s1mon 3y ago

peterlk 3y ago

Hear! hear! Why don’t we just start rolling back truck subsidies? If that’s not enough, maybe start incentivizing cars that aren’t tanks. The world is not more safe when everyone drives a tank. This is a tragedy of the commons

jeo123 3y ago
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Cybertruck is coming. Tesla needs that subsidy!

YokoZar 3y ago

Why not prohibit right on red for just these specific vehicles then?

thatswrong0 3y ago
I wish they would just make the licensing requirement stricter for driving these behemoth vehicles. But this would have to happen on a state by state basis..
cryptoz 3y ago
The real trick is actually enforcement. Nobody obeys the rules because none of the rules are enforced. So sure, make the law that prohibits just certain vehicles from doing a right on red. 100% guarantee you that the drivers of those cars will not obey the new rule and 100% guarantee you that cops won't enforce it.

cryptonector 3y ago

From TFA: | According to a national report by the Governors Highway Safety Association, more than 7,500 people walking were struck and killed by automobiles in 2022, the highest number since 1981. The spike, which included all accidents — not just those involving right turns on red, was attributed in part to an increase in larger vehicles such as SUVs and pickup trucks on the road. | The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety found that the odds a pedestrian would be killed when struck by an automobile turning right were 89% higher when the vehicle was a pickup and 63% higher when it was an SUV, due to larger blind spots and the deadlier force associated with heavier models. SUVs and pickups (I have a pickup, but I mostly only use it for activities that require a pickup) are extremely dangerous and should not be incentivized as they are by the current rules, and more, they should be taxed more heavily than sedans, coupes, and station wagons. Then a bit further down: | But Beeber said the National Motorists Association study of California found that even when there was an accident associated with right turns on red, at least 96% of the injuries sustained by pedestrians or cyclists were minor. Mr. Beeber is biased, and so is the NMA, so it's hard to say, but not much other data is offered regarding right-on-red injuries/fatalities, so I'm inclined to want to see more data before agreeing that we should ban right-on-red generally, or even in the cities as opposed to in areas with high pedestrian traffic. (Even where pedestrian traffic is high, it being high means drivers will tend to not miss them.) TFA makes a point of the dearth of data on right-on-red accidents. According to TFA there have been no new studies on the topic since 1994(!). I think the first step then would be to commission several studies. | “One injury or death is too many,” said Washington state Sen. John Lovick, the primary sponsor of a bill this year that would have prohibited right on red statewide near schools, parks and certain other locations. “If it were me at that intersection crossing, I would want something done.” This "one injury or death is too many" idea in general is very dangerous because it ignores unintended consequences completely. It's an idea that appeals to emotions rather than to reason.

daeros 3y ago

Americans and their oversized vehicles... I'm so glad to drive a fuel efficient sedan.

nunez 3y ago

it's partly that it's also people fucking scrolling on their fucking phones WHILE PERFORMING THE MANOEUVRE that's part of it or people not being used to seeing pedestrians because they live in sparse suburbs where nobody walks or goes outside, really, so they roll through that right on red as that's what they're used to driving is the fucking worst

xtiansimon 3y ago

Add to the dangerous vehicle weight window tinting. Maybe this is just a New York problem (certainly a NY regulation) illegally tinted windows greater than >30%. If you can’t see the driver, then you can’t be sure they see you.

lamontcg 3y ago

Not really. I've had people driving perfectly normal sedans with 1,000-yard stare off to their left as they're turning right on red, who don't see me at all as a pedestrian trying to walk across the crosswalk from their right. I first noticed this a few decades ago (before even iPhones). The average American doesn't understand the concept of "have your head on a swivel" and maintaining situational awareness of what is going on in two different directions. Or of just always be looking the direction that you're going (if you're about to stomp on the accelerator you better first be looking forward). The massive SUVs and trucks just make the problem worse, but they didn't start the problem. And that is apart from the horrible level of driver education, and education in general in the US, where a lot of drivers don't seem to understand that you actually need to stop for a right on red, or even that you need to yield to traffic from the left and just blow straight through the light.

noahjk 3y ago
This is my feeling as well. People are just trying to get where they’re going. That means, when turning on red, entering the intersection without stopping behind the line first. This almost always means driving straight through the crosswalk as well. And like you said, people have optimized their turning by staring left, prepared to barely even slow down before turning if the coast is clear. No thought is given to a potential pedestrian. Entering straight into intersections on a red light is an extremely bad habit that the US has. Along with getting rid of right turns on red (80% of pop would still do it), some countries also move the traffic lights to the close side of the street (above the traffic it controls, as opposed to across the intersection), forcing cars to stop further back to be able to see the light. I think that would be a huge impact to traffic patterns that is more physics based rather than legislature based.
- lamontcg 3y ago
  Yeah the biggest factor on making it worse isn't iPhones or big SUVs but just increasing narcissism (although the factors seem to be multiplicative).