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>The Swedish Transport Workers' union has also announced "sympathy measures" in support of IF Metall's strike, threatening to block the "loading and unloading o
by ApolloFortyNine 3y ago
>The Swedish Transport Workers' union has also announced "sympathy measures" in support of IF Metall's strike, threatening to block the "loading and unloading of Tesla cars" at four Swedish ports, starting on November 7th unless an agreement is reached.
Their country their rules, but measures like this seem to go beyond negotiating and is just a hostage situation.
Would tesla be able to bring in their own employees to unload the cars, or would they be forced to build their own port where they're allowed to drive the cars off the ship themselves? I'm guessing it's the latter if it's possible at all.
There's a point where unions can come off as more of cartels than worker collectives, and getting involved in another unrelated unions negotiation seems to cross that line.
There's a large number of laws that exist to prevent monopolies from companies, but if one union is responsible for unloading at all ports in Sweden (idk if this is the case and it wasn't that easy to look up), then that feels very much like a monopoly.
- permo-w 3y agoif it was unrelated then their actions would have no effect
- rand846633 3y agoReality shows that is overall good for the country, Sweden! It is purely not necessary for big corporations to be in the position to exploit workers. Nothing about this situation describes a monopoly. Every single individual worker has the choice to bust the union; they just prefer not to.
- FeesBitcoin 3y ago[flagged]
- lovich 3y agoMan, I am glad someone is here to advocate for how fighting fire with fire is unacceptable. There is absolutely zero reasons for any union to flex their power against a company that refuses to negotiate with unions at all, just because they are in a related, but technically different part of industry. We need to stop these filthy workers before they force company owners to lose a precious single digit percentage of yearly profit.
- robert_foss 3y agoThis is how McDonalds workers in Denmark got union coverage. There are actually many good reasons for this.
- lovich 3y agoIt may not have been obvious but I was being sarcastic. I thought the use of the word "filthy" when describing workers was bombastic enough to get my sarcasm across, but I do understand how this is a site filled with temporarily embarrassed billionaires and I could have hit Poe's law.
- 3c6bYDXLMj 3y ago[flagged]
- rychco 3y agoI’ll be honest I thought you were serious too until I read this reply. That being said, I know I’ve personally (as a US citizen) been conditioned from a young age to believe unions are a mixed-bag at best & outright criminal at worst. I also know as a matter of fact that this conditioning is incorrect, so there’s an odd feeling of momentary ambivalence whenever it pops back into my head.
- ryandrake 3y agoGood sarcasm mixes in seamlessly with legit, sincerely held beliefs, and Hacker News has built up a sizable subset audience of people sincerely simping and white-knighting for corporations.
- cscurmudgeon 3y agoLove the fight between embarrassed billionaires and embarrassed commissars.
- lovich 3y agoI’m fairly certain the non billionaire “temporarily embarrassed billionaires” are much less forthright with their ideology than the commissars are. Tbh I’ve heard a lot of critique of communists but this this the first time I’ve heard someone claim they were embarrassed about their position
- thinkingtoilet 3y ago>... but measures like this seem to go beyond negotiating and is just a hostage situation. It's not like they didn't try other means first. Capitalists like Musk will happily break labor laws and endanger their employees just so they can make even more money. Asking nicely and being reasonable doesn't work with people like this. It's not the unions who choose to go this route, it's people being forced to play hardball with greedy billionaires.
- DarmokJalad1701 3y ago> There's a point where unions can come off as more of cartels than worker collectives Wouldn't be the first time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokku_kooli https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokku_kooli
- axlee 3y agoBargaining always feels like an hostage situation from the side with less power. Lucky enough, workers united can tip the scales in their favor, while alone they are nothing.
- jltsiren 3y agoUnions are political rather than economic entities. Descriptions such as cartels or monopolies do not really apply. Supporting other unions' strikes has always been an integral part of the labor movement. Sometimes this is done with sympathy strikes. They are normal strikes, and all the usual rules regarding strikes apply. The people on strike lose money, which usually keeps excessive sympathy strikes in check. The American way is having a union contract that states it explicitly that employees do not have to cross picket lines. When there is a strike somewhere, other companies may stop deliveries and other services to the affected company, because they don't have any employees who could provide the services. Those employees are still getting paid, because they are working normally and doing everything they were hired to do. Their employers just cannot provide the services expected from them.
- cool_dude85 3y agoTo clarify, sympathy strikes are usually not prohibited via negotiation, rather, they are illegal under NLRA.
- dangus 3y agoThis is such a bullshit pro-corporation take. Workers aren’t obligated to perform labor. They aren’t slaves. Imagine another country was delivering opium to your country and the dock workers went on strike to stop it. This same dumb argument would apply. If Tesla wants Swedish workers to work for them all they have to do is improve working conditions to the prevailing standard and hire a CEO who doesn’t spend most of his time being an asshole to other people on social media. Simple. Karma’s a bitch. Treat other people badly and expect people to return the favor. Tesla’s profit per vehicle is well above industry standard, they can afford good wages.
- readams 3y agoAre you really advocating that dock workers should have complete control over all foreign trade?
- dangus 3y agoWhy should workers be denied the right to use their leverage when we governments and corporations always have the full ability to use theirs? Workers use leverage and they get condemned. Companies and governments do it and they get praised for being paternal protectors. If the suits who run the show don’t know how to unload a container ship that’s their problem.
- schmookeeg 3y agoI don't know how to answer your question without knowing who built the port.
- whoknowsidont 3y agoPresumably the construction workers.
- dantheman 3y agoWhat are your thoughts on net neutrality? and how does that differ from a port? Should the ISP decide what they will carry or not?
- slowhadoken 3y agoEvery union is different. Some are reasonable, some are nutty, some are crooked. Strikes are also on a case by case basis.
- surgical_fire 3y ago> There's a point where unions can come off as more of cartels than worker collectives Will nobody think of the poor multinational corporations and their billionaire owners? Sarcasm aside, if Tesla has trouble dealing with labor in a certain country, they are always free to take their business of selling shitty cars out of there. There are other companies that will be glad to fill the gap.
- feedforward 3y ago> There's a large number of laws that exist to prevent monopolies from companies From the accounting oligopolies, to the online ads oligopolies, to the b2b software oligopolies, to the publishing oligopolies, to the oil oligopolies, to the breakfast cereal oligopolies, to the music oligopolies, to the advertising oligopolies to...can you tell me what industry there are laws that prevent monopolies and oligopolies? Local restaurants and lawn care?
- fdasfdafdasfdsa 3y ago[dead]
- fallingknife 3y agoNone. There are no laws to prevent oligopolies. But the comment you are replying to didn't suggest there were either, so why bring it up?
- mcpackieh 3y agoMaybe the mailman union will also refuse to deliver mail to Tesla.
- TraspSE 3y agoThat would be SEKO. I'm personally hoping for them and Finansförbundet (bank employees) to signal on Wednesday or Thursday that they'll be joining in, together with an expansion of Transport's involvement. They're all members of the umbrella organisation LO. Finansförbundet will probably not signal until the strike has been going on for at least a few months, but I believe that a couple of other sectors will. Tesla is like that guest who comes to your house only to refuse to follow the ways of those who actually live there. Tesla, Amazon and the rest of all these companies that are coming here is acting like it's America - it's not, and they will know this soon enough. Collective agreements is how you do business in Sweden and their arrogance in thinking that they can come here and impose American business culture on our nation is so nonchalant that it probably have secured the support from the general public in favour of the unions. Let the games begin...
- gumballindie 3y agoI am not entirely sure why tesla chose sweden - it probably affects their quality as well, i mean volvo’s been pretty bad for a while. I do respect the idea of a union but it does sound like a monopoly. Guess socialism is like that.
- pylua 3y agoI sincerely doubt they could bring in their own employees. I bet there are training , operations , and safety issues with that.
- kryptiskt 3y agoSweden has largely left it to employers and unions to regulate the job market with little interference from politics. For example, there is no minimum wage in Sweden, things like that are collectively bargained by the employers associations and the unions. A company that comes here and wants nothing to do with unions can't fit into this system, because everything is built on the collective bargaining. Yes, the unions have an important position, you can call it a monopoly, what you miss here is that employers are also organized and have just as much leverage. The central bargaining means that there is literally no risk that a company gets singled out, the local union isn't going to demand a huge pay rise just for Tesla workers. So there's little risk in signing an agreement with the union, nearly all the other sizable companies in Sweden have done so. On the other hand, no one is going to lift a finger to help Tesla if they continue to be stupid.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- lmm 3y ago> getting involved in another unrelated unions negotiation seems to cross that line. Companies do favours for "unrelated" companies all the time - Tesla of all companies is in no place to complain about the same tactics being used on them. Outlawing this is what turned anglo countries into the capitalist hellscape they've become. > if one union is responsible for unloading at all ports in Sweden (idk if this is the case and it wasn't that easy to look up), then that feels very much like a monopoly. The union represents the workers. It's not a monopoly any more than a country having a single government is a monopoly.
- seydor 3y agoThats not a good take. a hostage that can freely leave the country is not a hostage. Tesla is a just a stranger in a different culture. If Elon shut down twitter in sweden in retaliation would he be holding sweden "hostage"? In any case, analogies are not needed, this is typical union struggle, and it s how things work for a century. In the end there is compromise
- Snild 3y ago> or would they be forced to build their own port where they're allowed to drive the cars off the ship themselves? I'm guessing it's the latter if it's possible at all. That would probably be difficult, as construction workers and related unions would presumably also join the sympathy strike. Electricians are already involved. > more of cartels than worker collectives, and getting involved in another unrelated unions negotiation seems to cross that line. It's in all the unions' interest to defend the current model. Sympathy strikes make sense.