4 ms·

So do you think that Samsung for example, has less responsibility for its worker's conditions than Apple?

tatsuke95 15y ago
No, I don't. Look, I'm not particularly into this debate. I believe the conditions are relatively horrible, but there are lots of horrible things going on in the world, so it's not where I'd spend my time. At the end of the day, working at Foxconn is voluntary, as opposed to, say, cancer. That said, I'm glad that there are people in the world fighting this fight. It's how social change happens. And I'm going to assume that these people, who have decided this is their fight, have done their due diligence and decided that the best way to go forward is by attacking what is the biggest company and one of the most famous brands in the world. So do I think Samsung is less responsible? No. But this isn't about being "fair" about the blame for corporations; it's about changing the conditions at Foxconn and in turn, China and the world. Targeting Apple has proven to be the best vehicle for that. So be it.
- rbarooah 15y ago
  Targeting Apple has proven to be the best vehicle for that. Do you have any evidence at all for this? How do you know that targeting other companies too wouldn't be more effective?
  - tatsuke95 15y ago
    My proof is that they're attacking Apple, and it's working; we're talking about it. We're also talking about the fact that Apple isn't the only company to blame. Even that happened by attacking Apple. I'm not being facetious: are you really in need of evidence? It's happening, and the people who are doing it have decided it's the best strategy. I can't go by anything else. And thanks to the nature of the experiment, it can't be repeated. It may or may not be optimal, it just is.
    - rbarooah 15y ago
      I didn't say it wasn't working. I just think don't think it's helpful to claim it's the best way. [edit: one reason I think it's unhelpful is that it legitimizes misleading reporting, which is itself a great harm]
      - tatsuke95 15y ago
        I'll concede that "proven to be the best" was probably too strong a claim. Proven to be sufficient at achieving the goal, then.
        rbarooah 15y ago
        I agree that it's achieving the goal of pushing Apple to improve working conditions although given that they started their improvement program in 2006, it's highly debatable whether the recent outrage has achieved anything that wasn't already happening. It remains to be seen whether this will have any effect on other manufacturers.
- AllenKids 15y ago
  > Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight. Why am I quoting a 2008 movie?
cooldeal 15y ago
Equal responsibility but lesser blame. It's like slagging on a poor man for eating unhealthy food on the dollar menu at McDonalds. That man has an excuse, he doesn't have the money to shop for organic food at Whole Foods. Someone already super rich eating the dollar menu just to save a few bucks definitely deserves more blame not for eating healthy. There isn't much money left over after Apple is done sucking the profit out of the phone industry. http://www.asymco.com/2012/02/03/first-apples-rank-in-mobile-phone-profitability-and-revenues/ http://www.asymco.com/2012/02/03/first-apples-rank-in-mobile... http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Screen-Shot-2012-02-03-at-2-3-12.37.20-PM.png http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Screen-Shot...
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- rbarooah 15y ago
  Since they are doing the most to improve working conditions, perhaps they deserve more profit.
  - recoiledsnake 15y ago
    Nokia is known for the best working conditions in their plants in Europe because of the labor laws there. For example look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqxYiXtzKd0&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqxYiXtzKd0&feature=playe... However, due to their all their competitors including Apple moving manufacturing to China, they have been forced to close their European plants and move to China as well.
    - rbarooah 15y ago
      Nokia isn't doing the most to improve working conditions. Apple is.
      - cooldeal 15y ago
        So someone who stopped beating the wife is more laudable than someone who never did?

No, I don't. Look, I'm not particularly into this debate. I believe the conditions are relatively horrible, but there are lots of horrible things going on in the world, so it's not where I'd spend my time. At the end of the day, working at Foxconn is voluntary, as opposed to, say, cancer. That said, I'm glad that there are people in the world fighting this fight. It's how social change happens. And I'm going to assume that these people, who have decided this is their fight, have done their due diligence and decided that the best way to go forward is by attacking what is the biggest company and one of the most famous brands in the world. So do I think Samsung is less responsible? No. But this isn't about being "fair" about the blame for corporations; it's about changing the conditions at Foxconn and in turn, China and the world. Targeting Apple has proven to be the best vehicle for that. So be it.

rbarooah 15y ago
Targeting Apple has proven to be the best vehicle for that. Do you have any evidence at all for this? How do you know that targeting other companies too wouldn't be more effective?
- tatsuke95 15y ago
  My proof is that they're attacking Apple, and it's working; we're talking about it. We're also talking about the fact that Apple isn't the only company to blame. Even that happened by attacking Apple. I'm not being facetious: are you really in need of evidence? It's happening, and the people who are doing it have decided it's the best strategy. I can't go by anything else. And thanks to the nature of the experiment, it can't be repeated. It may or may not be optimal, it just is.
  - rbarooah 15y ago
    I didn't say it wasn't working. I just think don't think it's helpful to claim it's the best way. [edit: one reason I think it's unhelpful is that it legitimizes misleading reporting, which is itself a great harm]
    - tatsuke95 15y ago
      I'll concede that "proven to be the best" was probably too strong a claim. Proven to be sufficient at achieving the goal, then.
      - rbarooah 15y ago
        I agree that it's achieving the goal of pushing Apple to improve working conditions although given that they started their improvement program in 2006, it's highly debatable whether the recent outrage has achieved anything that wasn't already happening. It remains to be seen whether this will have any effect on other manufacturers.
AllenKids 15y ago
> Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight. Why am I quoting a 2008 movie?

cooldeal 15y ago

Equal responsibility but lesser blame. It's like slagging on a poor man for eating unhealthy food on the dollar menu at McDonalds. That man has an excuse, he doesn't have the money to shop for organic food at Whole Foods. Someone already super rich eating the dollar menu just to save a few bucks definitely deserves more blame not for eating healthy. There isn't much money left over after Apple is done sucking the profit out of the phone industry. http://www.asymco.com/2012/02/03/first-apples-rank-in-mobile-phone-profitability-and-revenues/ http://www.asymco.com/2012/02/03/first-apples-rank-in-mobile... http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Screen-Shot-2012-02-03-at-2-3-12.37.20-PM.png http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Screen-Shot...

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
rbarooah 15y ago
Since they are doing the most to improve working conditions, perhaps they deserve more profit.
- recoiledsnake 15y ago
  Nokia is known for the best working conditions in their plants in Europe because of the labor laws there. For example look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqxYiXtzKd0&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqxYiXtzKd0&feature=playe... However, due to their all their competitors including Apple moving manufacturing to China, they have been forced to close their European plants and move to China as well.
  - rbarooah 15y ago
    Nokia isn't doing the most to improve working conditions. Apple is.
    - cooldeal 15y ago
      So someone who stopped beating the wife is more laudable than someone who never did?