6 ms·

> It can become more like poker, where deceit is a part of the game. I wouldn't equate skipping a bowl with bluffing. Maybe, palming a chip as you put your bet

by elwell 3y ago

> It can become more like poker, where deceit is a part of the game. I wouldn't equate skipping a bowl with bluffing. Maybe, palming a chip as you put your bet in: which certainly isn't "part of the game".

furyofantares 3y ago
I also wouldn't equate it with bluffing at all, but from the description, maybe also not palming a chip. It's possible for something that's cheating among one group to be a part of the game among another. Sports have a lot of things that are in some sense against the rules, but standard penalties are applied if caught, and it's just a part of the game, like fouling a player in basketball. Nobody considers it cheating, it's a part of the game because the penalty is standardized. Of course you still try not to get caught.
- thret 3y ago
  Fouling isn't cheating because it's accidental. If it were deliberate, it would be cheating.
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    It might be accidental and it might not.
- couchand 3y ago
  I'm not sure I agree with this take on basketball strategy. I'm no expert, but my understanding is that intentionally fouling in basketball is largely a time-management move? Like, you want to be "caught" because that's the whole point -- you aren't seeking an advantage in play that the penalty is meant to offset, you're seeking the penalty.
  - furyofantares 3y ago
    Time management are an extreme scenario, NOT the main use of fouls. Fouls are conserved and used throughout the game. They're usually somewhere between intentional and accidental - you'd rather get your hand on the ball and not foul if you can. But you'd often rather foul than they get the 2 points if those are your only options. And how many fouls you have left against their best shooters is a major consideration throughout the game. There's an anecdote about some Kobe Bryant trash talk that I think demonstrates both that fouls are valued for stopping 2 points, but ALSO the per-player foul limit is an additional consideration and separate strategic consideration. > So we were playing, and you know it was like a two-on-one break. And, Caron Butler fouls and stops the break. So everybody was like, "Good job! That stop stops two points." > So, Kobe comes out... and we’re all like, "Good, Good. You saved two points." > Kobe walks over to him and says, "Hey, who are you guarding?", and Butler responds, "You!", and he goes, "Huh... How many fouls you got?". And Caron says, "I got one!" and Kobe says, "So you only got five left? Well, you need all six fouls to guard me, and you just wasted one... on him! It’s a stupid... stupid play!" > And you had to think about it like... "God, he’s right!"

by elwell 3y ago

furyofantares 3y ago

I also wouldn't equate it with bluffing at all, but from the description, maybe also not palming a chip. It's possible for something that's cheating among one group to be a part of the game among another. Sports have a lot of things that are in some sense against the rules, but standard penalties are applied if caught, and it's just a part of the game, like fouling a player in basketball. Nobody considers it cheating, it's a part of the game because the penalty is standardized. Of course you still try not to get caught.

thret 3y ago
Fouling isn't cheating because it's accidental. If it were deliberate, it would be cheating.
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  It might be accidental and it might not.
couchand 3y ago
I'm not sure I agree with this take on basketball strategy. I'm no expert, but my understanding is that intentionally fouling in basketball is largely a time-management move? Like, you want to be "caught" because that's the whole point -- you aren't seeking an advantage in play that the penalty is meant to offset, you're seeking the penalty.
- furyofantares 3y ago
  Time management are an extreme scenario, NOT the main use of fouls. Fouls are conserved and used throughout the game. They're usually somewhere between intentional and accidental - you'd rather get your hand on the ball and not foul if you can. But you'd often rather foul than they get the 2 points if those are your only options. And how many fouls you have left against their best shooters is a major consideration throughout the game. There's an anecdote about some Kobe Bryant trash talk that I think demonstrates both that fouls are valued for stopping 2 points, but ALSO the per-player foul limit is an additional consideration and separate strategic consideration. > So we were playing, and you know it was like a two-on-one break. And, Caron Butler fouls and stops the break. So everybody was like, "Good job! That stop stops two points." > So, Kobe comes out... and we’re all like, "Good, Good. You saved two points." > Kobe walks over to him and says, "Hey, who are you guarding?", and Butler responds, "You!", and he goes, "Huh... How many fouls you got?". And Caron says, "I got one!" and Kobe says, "So you only got five left? Well, you need all six fouls to guard me, and you just wasted one... on him! It’s a stupid... stupid play!" > And you had to think about it like... "God, he’s right!"