4 ms·

$575 profit per iPhone? I think you mixed up profit with something else, maybe average sale price. In a free market, profit isn't determined by cost or your in

$575 profit per iPhone? I think you mixed up profit with something else, maybe average sale price. In a free market, profit isn't determined by cost or your intuition about "fairness". Price is determined by supply and demand, and profit is price minus cost. Foxxconn already pays well above average wages while providing a safer workplace than the average US manufacturer, and a lower suicide rate than the Chinese average. And this is still going up even as working hours decrease. Whether all these criticisms are completely legitimate or not (for example I think workers should be allowed to work more overtime if they voluntarily choose to, to get more money, instead of being capped at 49hours/week), Apple is responding to them as well as anyone could ask for. Apple's competitors are not getting the same scrutiny. Since Apple is handling the issue great, isn't there room for some of that attention to land on others with much worse practices? Further, Apple has nowhere near 80% of the production or employees or anything like that. There are other big players as far as how many Chinese workers they are involved with, which I think is the relevant metric for how important reform is.

recoiledsnake 15y ago
>$575 profit per iPhone? I think you mixed up profit with something else, maybe average sale price. The number is from the usual suspect Asymco. http://www.asymco.com/2012/04/02/android-economics/ http://www.asymco.com/2012/04/02/android-economics/ >Whereas Android generates $1.70/device/year and thus an Android device with a two year life generates about $3.5 to Google over its life, Apple obtained $576.3 for each iOS device it sold in 2011[4]. The economics of Android are nothing like the economics of iOS.
- xenophanes 15y ago
  That's revenue (gross income) not profit (net income). Look at the charts on that article, they say all "revenue", the article is about revenue. Apple has an ASP on iphones on the order of 650 and a profit margin on the order of 40%. They can't be making 575 profit per phone.
  - recoiledsnake 15y ago
    If that is correct, I stand corrected. I was taken in by the summary on Slashdot which stated that the profit was $575 and quoted Asymco. http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/12/04/08/0546247/google-earns-2-per-handset-apple-575 http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/12/04/08/0546247/google-ear...
    - glhaynes 15y ago
      Slashdot has always reminded me of that clueless friend that always remembers the numbers from a news story but doesn't remember the units or have any sense of them in a meaningful context.
- nextparadigms 15y ago
  I don't know why people even read Asymco. His data why seemingly true, because he shows you charts and whatnot, it's usually very misleading. Apple doesn't make $575 in profit per iPhone. The components alone cost around $300, and they only get like $650 from the carrier, but you also have to take into account all the extra costs, marketing, shipping, salaries, R&D, and so on. At most they probably make around $200-$300 in profit for iPhone, depending on the version. The Android data is also misleading. He's taking it from what Google said in the trial. You don't think Google would try to downplay the revenues they get from Android in the trial through some smart accounting?
theoj 15y ago
>> [Foxconn provides] a safer workplace than the average US manufacturer Would really love to see some data that backs up that assertion.
- xenophanes 15y ago
  I got it from https://twitter.com/#!/nicepaul/status/163797296306331648/photo/1/large https://twitter.com/#!/nicepaul/status/163797296306331648/ph... which gives a data source and is linked from http://go.bloomberg.com/tech-blog/2012-03-20-now-can-we-start-talking-about-the-real-foxconn/ http://go.bloomberg.com/tech-blog/2012-03-20-now-can-we-star...
  - theoj 15y ago
    Careful with your data sources and assertions. Some of this "data" needs a serious dose of fact checking. The data for: https://twitter.com/#!/nicepaul/status/163797296306331648/photo/1/large https://twitter.com/#!/nicepaul/status/163797296306331648/ph... as indicated at the bottom, comes from: http://onforb.es/wj2Lt6 http://onforb.es/wj2Lt6 which maps to: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/01/29/the-apple-boycott-people-are-spouting-nonsense-about-chinese-manufacturing/2/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/01/29/the-apple... If you look at Tim Worstall's (kinda op-ed) article on the second page, you can see that the author says that if the fatalities rate in Foxconn was the same as that in the US, we would expect to have 35 fatalities / year. Then he says that we only heard about 3-4 workers hurt at Foxconn, hence the rate is lower. That argument is flawed because what we hear on the news cannot be construed to represent all fatalities at Foxconn. I suspect that the fatalities rate at Foxconn is not publicized (because it doesn't have to be). Another issue is that to determine the relative safety of the workplaces, the author is only looking at workplace fatalities. What about looking at accidents that leave the workers unable to work or maimed? Bottom line, I don't think the incomplete data that we have supports the assertion that Foxconn is a safer workplace.
    - xenophanes 15y ago
      OK, thanks.

recoiledsnake 15y ago

>$575 profit per iPhone? I think you mixed up profit with something else, maybe average sale price. The number is from the usual suspect Asymco. http://www.asymco.com/2012/04/02/android-economics/ http://www.asymco.com/2012/04/02/android-economics/ >Whereas Android generates $1.70/device/year and thus an Android device with a two year life generates about $3.5 to Google over its life, Apple obtained $576.3 for each iOS device it sold in 2011[4]. The economics of Android are nothing like the economics of iOS.

xenophanes 15y ago
That's revenue (gross income) not profit (net income). Look at the charts on that article, they say all "revenue", the article is about revenue. Apple has an ASP on iphones on the order of 650 and a profit margin on the order of 40%. They can't be making 575 profit per phone.
- recoiledsnake 15y ago
  If that is correct, I stand corrected. I was taken in by the summary on Slashdot which stated that the profit was $575 and quoted Asymco. http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/12/04/08/0546247/google-earns-2-per-handset-apple-575 http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/12/04/08/0546247/google-ear...
  - glhaynes 15y ago
    Slashdot has always reminded me of that clueless friend that always remembers the numbers from a news story but doesn't remember the units or have any sense of them in a meaningful context.
nextparadigms 15y ago
I don't know why people even read Asymco. His data why seemingly true, because he shows you charts and whatnot, it's usually very misleading. Apple doesn't make $575 in profit per iPhone. The components alone cost around $300, and they only get like $650 from the carrier, but you also have to take into account all the extra costs, marketing, shipping, salaries, R&D, and so on. At most they probably make around $200-$300 in profit for iPhone, depending on the version. The Android data is also misleading. He's taking it from what Google said in the trial. You don't think Google would try to downplay the revenues they get from Android in the trial through some smart accounting?

theoj 15y ago

>> [Foxconn provides] a safer workplace than the average US manufacturer Would really love to see some data that backs up that assertion.

xenophanes 15y ago
I got it from https://twitter.com/#!/nicepaul/status/163797296306331648/photo/1/large https://twitter.com/#!/nicepaul/status/163797296306331648/ph... which gives a data source and is linked from http://go.bloomberg.com/tech-blog/2012-03-20-now-can-we-start-talking-about-the-real-foxconn/ http://go.bloomberg.com/tech-blog/2012-03-20-now-can-we-star...
- theoj 15y ago
  Careful with your data sources and assertions. Some of this "data" needs a serious dose of fact checking. The data for: https://twitter.com/#!/nicepaul/status/163797296306331648/photo/1/large https://twitter.com/#!/nicepaul/status/163797296306331648/ph... as indicated at the bottom, comes from: http://onforb.es/wj2Lt6 http://onforb.es/wj2Lt6 which maps to: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/01/29/the-apple-boycott-people-are-spouting-nonsense-about-chinese-manufacturing/2/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/01/29/the-apple... If you look at Tim Worstall's (kinda op-ed) article on the second page, you can see that the author says that if the fatalities rate in Foxconn was the same as that in the US, we would expect to have 35 fatalities / year. Then he says that we only heard about 3-4 workers hurt at Foxconn, hence the rate is lower. That argument is flawed because what we hear on the news cannot be construed to represent all fatalities at Foxconn. I suspect that the fatalities rate at Foxconn is not publicized (because it doesn't have to be). Another issue is that to determine the relative safety of the workplaces, the author is only looking at workplace fatalities. What about looking at accidents that leave the workers unable to work or maimed? Bottom line, I don't think the incomplete data that we have supports the assertion that Foxconn is a safer workplace.
  - xenophanes 15y ago
    OK, thanks.