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> We stopped moving around because we discovered that instead of chasing food down all over the place, you can grow foor right near you... If that was all ther

> We stopped moving around because we discovered that instead of chasing food down all over the place, you can grow foor right near you... If that was all there was to it, why did we keep migrating after the agricultural revolution?

rebolek 3y ago
Because of changes in the environment.
- beedeebeedee 3y ago
  But just as importantly, changes in the community (which I suppose we could call the social environment). That has been as significant a driver for migration as changes in the natural environment if not more. Most migrations in the last few hundred years that I am aware of were driven by social issues (economic, political, religious, etc), and not from natural environmental changes. I.e., Ireland's Great Hunger was not an environmentally driven exodus, even if a potato blight was involved.
ethanbond 3y ago
For the same reason people still move and still found new towns and grow the borders of cities today? Because there are new places to go, and they might be better than the current place?
- beedeebeedee 3y ago
  > they might be better than the current place? I think you are agreeing with me. People leave communities when they are not prospering within them.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    > Only recently have we stopped because, frankly, there is no place to go This is what I was disputing. We haven’t stopped, and to the extent that we have, it’s not because there’s no place to go.
    - beedeebeedee 3y ago
      Yeah, I think I'd mostly agree with you then. I think we are not moving around as much as we used to, and to many people, it feels as if we cannot move; either because we lack the funds to survive there if we do, or because it will just be more of the same. That is obviously a biased view on my part, because there are migrants moving from "developing" countries to the US and EU all the time- clearly, they believe they have some place to go that will be better. My agenda in replying to the original comment is that this desire to move is not abnormal. It is as much a part of human history as building community is. I wanted to point that out, because I am familiar with many well-intentioned and well-off people not understanding (and even feeling contempt) for people who wish to leave their community. If you are not happy, and not prospering within a community, why would you want to stay? I don't know if understanding the roots of that dissatisfaction will help us achieve a kinder gentler society, but at least it might help them no longer refer to those people as loners or losers (and have a little empathy and understanding).
      - Kye 3y ago
        They often find a support network in the diaspora that preceded them. If you move within your own country without any friends or family in the destination, everyone there mainly has experience with people like you who are already established.
gus_massa 3y ago
Because agriculture produces too much food that increase the population too much, so some of the offpring must find another site to cultivate.
- beedeebeedee 3y ago
  That's a good point, and definitely operates over the long term (i.e., in this case, more than one generation). Also, overpopulation usually creates conditions that change the community and affect individuals and subgroups differently (prompting some to leave), so I don't think we are disagreeing about anything. My purpose was to respond to the original comment that the desire to leave community is not as strange and abnormal as it seemed to state. I think there is an equally strong claim that human history is of us leaving community as it is building community.
JohnFen 3y ago
For a lot of different reasons. But when migrations happen, they don't tend to be individuals. They tend to be entire subgroups. So it's not people leaving community, it's a subcommunity splitting off.

rebolek 3y ago

Because of changes in the environment.

beedeebeedee 3y ago
But just as importantly, changes in the community (which I suppose we could call the social environment). That has been as significant a driver for migration as changes in the natural environment if not more. Most migrations in the last few hundred years that I am aware of were driven by social issues (economic, political, religious, etc), and not from natural environmental changes. I.e., Ireland's Great Hunger was not an environmentally driven exodus, even if a potato blight was involved.

ethanbond 3y ago

For the same reason people still move and still found new towns and grow the borders of cities today? Because there are new places to go, and they might be better than the current place?

beedeebeedee 3y ago
> they might be better than the current place? I think you are agreeing with me. People leave communities when they are not prospering within them.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  > Only recently have we stopped because, frankly, there is no place to go This is what I was disputing. We haven’t stopped, and to the extent that we have, it’s not because there’s no place to go.
  - beedeebeedee 3y ago
    Yeah, I think I'd mostly agree with you then. I think we are not moving around as much as we used to, and to many people, it feels as if we cannot move; either because we lack the funds to survive there if we do, or because it will just be more of the same. That is obviously a biased view on my part, because there are migrants moving from "developing" countries to the US and EU all the time- clearly, they believe they have some place to go that will be better. My agenda in replying to the original comment is that this desire to move is not abnormal. It is as much a part of human history as building community is. I wanted to point that out, because I am familiar with many well-intentioned and well-off people not understanding (and even feeling contempt) for people who wish to leave their community. If you are not happy, and not prospering within a community, why would you want to stay? I don't know if understanding the roots of that dissatisfaction will help us achieve a kinder gentler society, but at least it might help them no longer refer to those people as loners or losers (and have a little empathy and understanding).
    - Kye 3y ago
      They often find a support network in the diaspora that preceded them. If you move within your own country without any friends or family in the destination, everyone there mainly has experience with people like you who are already established.

gus_massa 3y ago

Because agriculture produces too much food that increase the population too much, so some of the offpring must find another site to cultivate.

beedeebeedee 3y ago
That's a good point, and definitely operates over the long term (i.e., in this case, more than one generation). Also, overpopulation usually creates conditions that change the community and affect individuals and subgroups differently (prompting some to leave), so I don't think we are disagreeing about anything. My purpose was to respond to the original comment that the desire to leave community is not as strange and abnormal as it seemed to state. I think there is an equally strong claim that human history is of us leaving community as it is building community.

JohnFen 3y ago

For a lot of different reasons. But when migrations happen, they don't tend to be individuals. They tend to be entire subgroups. So it's not people leaving community, it's a subcommunity splitting off.