4 ms·

I agree its not a sharp example, there are lots of interacting effects and factors. But to me at least the statistics seem rather overwhelming. Social structure

I agree its not a sharp example, there are lots of interacting effects and factors. But to me at least the statistics seem rather overwhelming. Social structure and rules and enforcement seem more tailored to mop up aberrations rather than constrain "normal" behavior. There is probably social studies of toddlers etc that analyze this question when conforming behaviors are less developed. I don't recall reading something that proves it is only learned cultural norms that "pacify" us.

sorokod 3y ago
In different places and times there were different thresholds on the level of violence acceptable to society. We should be careful to not project our current norms on the entire history of humanity. A quote from A Distant Mirror The Calamitous 14th Century by Barbara Tuchman: In village games, players with hands tied behind them competed to kill a cat nailed to a post by battering it to death with their heads, at the risk of cheeks ripped open or eyes scratched out by the frantic animal’s claws. Trumpets enhanced the excitement. Or a pig enclosed in a wide pen was chased by men with clubs to the laughter of spectators as he ran squealing from the blows until beaten lifeless and another one: The citizens of Mons bought a condemned criminal from a neighboring town so that they should have the pleasure of seeing him quartered.
- itsacomment 3y ago
  Both cases are arguably examples not of individual violence but organized group violence.
  - sorokod 3y ago
    Go for it, argue...
    - itsacomment 3y ago
      The criminal was a) condemned, so organized state violence and b) brought over by the entire village, so a group of people. Not an individual outburst of violence, then. The group of people trying to head-butt the chicken to death are playing a sport. Often enough to at some time add trumpets to it.
      - sorokod 3y ago
        * Mons is not a village, it is a city in present day Belgium. * head-butt the chicken please re-read the quote, it doesn't mention chickens. * When the entertainment committee invests in quartering of a human being, it reflects the norms and attitudes of the general population. If you are interested in the topic, "THE WANING OF THE MIDDLE AGES" is open source and text is available here https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Waning_of_the_Middle_Ages https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Waning_of_the_Middle_Ages
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]

sorokod 3y ago

In different places and times there were different thresholds on the level of violence acceptable to society. We should be careful to not project our current norms on the entire history of humanity. A quote from A Distant Mirror The Calamitous 14th Century by Barbara Tuchman: In village games, players with hands tied behind them competed to kill a cat nailed to a post by battering it to death with their heads, at the risk of cheeks ripped open or eyes scratched out by the frantic animal’s claws. Trumpets enhanced the excitement. Or a pig enclosed in a wide pen was chased by men with clubs to the laughter of spectators as he ran squealing from the blows until beaten lifeless and another one: The citizens of Mons bought a condemned criminal from a neighboring town so that they should have the pleasure of seeing him quartered.

itsacomment 3y ago
Both cases are arguably examples not of individual violence but organized group violence.
- sorokod 3y ago
  Go for it, argue...
  - itsacomment 3y ago
    The criminal was a) condemned, so organized state violence and b) brought over by the entire village, so a group of people. Not an individual outburst of violence, then. The group of people trying to head-butt the chicken to death are playing a sport. Often enough to at some time add trumpets to it.
    - sorokod 3y ago
      * Mons is not a village, it is a city in present day Belgium. * head-butt the chicken please re-read the quote, it doesn't mention chickens. * When the entertainment committee invests in quartering of a human being, it reflects the norms and attitudes of the general population. If you are interested in the topic, "THE WANING OF THE MIDDLE AGES" is open source and text is available here https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Waning_of_the_Middle_Ages https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Waning_of_the_Middle_Ages
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]