3 ms·

Are you implying that nobody has solar panels or wind turbines?

by berkes 3y ago

lm28469 3y ago
They're stacking them on top of existing energy sources,virtually no one replaced fossil or nuclear by solar Germany is the perfect example, they use as much dirty energy as twenty years ago: https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_image/public/paragraphs/images/fig1-installed-net-power-generation-capacity-germany-2002-2022.png?itok=5BA4OuEZ https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/g...
- defrost 3y ago
  You've moved, at least, from literally nobody to virtually nobody. On the nobody side there's South Australia which has had long periods of fully renewable energy supply to residents with excess energy being exported to neighbouriong states, and currently stands at fully 70% renewable supply (including to heavy industry) which isn't too bad given they have alumina smelters and other massive power sucks. https://www.energymining.sa.gov.au/industry/modern-energy/leading-the-green-economy https://www.energymining.sa.gov.au/industry/modern-energy/le...
  - lm28469 3y ago
    Remind me what's the population density australia ? And how much sunlight do they get ? Of course if your country is a literal flat desert getting 2-4x the sun it's a bit easier to make it work, for anything north of Maghreb it's game over, too many people, too energy dense, not enough sun.
    - defrost 3y ago
      > Remind me Why, is your internet down? > what's the population density australia ? Very much the wrong question for several reasons: * Australia's population is seriously urban, to the point of ridicule by Jack Davis[1] who referred to the european descedents as "fringedwellers" for their habit of clinging to the fringes of the continent in a few very large cities - you'd be wanting to look to the population density figures for Sydney / Melbourne to get a sense of how the majority of Australians live * More importantly the energy demands of Australia, the country, are quite different to the energy demands of the Australian people - as a bulk exporter of raw materials the bulk of energy used in Australia goes towards goods used by an very large number of others in the world poplation. By way of example, W.Australia a single state with a population of 2 million exports 16x more iron ore every year than than the USofA ever achieved in a single year - this goes towards a being a major percentage of the global demand for steel. * You're looking more for the kind of figure that relates to the energy demands for the size of the market served and less to the energy demands of the few individuals that happen to live nearby. > And how much sunlight do they get ? This is, of course, irrelevant for the question of the example I gave, Adelaide in South Australia. They do not use the total sunlight that falls on the total area of the country of Australia. That project uses the sunlight that falls just outside a city on the 35th parallel south which gets the same amount of sunlight as a city on the 35th parallel north. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Davis_(playwright) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Davis_(playwright)
      - Qwertious 3y ago
        To back up your point: [half the population of Australia](https://i.imgur.com/dA92oJp.png https://i.imgur.com/dA92oJp.png), marked in red. That said, I think this misses the parent comment's point: Australia has a bunch more empty land than Europe. Which is true but not that important, as Europe has plenty of land to build renewables on, and quite often the reason for "lack of land" in Europe is political, not geographic - Germany is a particularly famous example, with absurdly restrictive zoning restrictions on wind turbines, based on pseudoscience.
        defrost 3y ago
        > That said, I think this misses the parent comment's point My answer might appear to have but I knew what they were attempting to convey under their attitude. I chose to address a few other important considerations. Leaving that aside, Australia might be back on track to export sunlight via cable to Singapore. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38148409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38148409 The distance and the technology don't concern me nearly as much as the route; it's a hotbed of faults, a few deep trenches, and prone to earthquakes and volcanoes. I also question the implied snub of Indonesia - they have a very large population and might appreciate some power, Australia may also benefit from the diplomacy aspects also.
- otherme123 3y ago
  Virtually everyone is replacing fossil with solar and wind. In Spain or UK coal is gone. In Europe coal went from 30% to 15% since 2000, wind + solar went from 0% to 25% in the same timespan. All of it while nuclear is also falling. But of course you bring up the only one case in the world that net replaced nuclear with coal. And you "support" your claim with a graph that shows coal and nuclear falling and being replaced with solar and eolic, and Germany using less absolute dirty energy than 20 years ago despite doubling production.

Are you implying that nobody has solar panels or wind turbines?

by berkes 3y ago

Are you implying that nobody has solar panels or wind turbines?

They're stacking them on top of existing energy sources,virtually no one replaced fossil or nuclear by solar Germany is the perfect example, they use as much dirty energy as twenty years ago: https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_image/public/paragraphs/images/fig1-installed-net-power-generation-capacity-germany-2002-2022.png?itok=5BA4OuEZ https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/g...

defrost 3y ago
You've moved, at least, from literally nobody to virtually nobody. On the nobody side there's South Australia which has had long periods of fully renewable energy supply to residents with excess energy being exported to neighbouriong states, and currently stands at fully 70% renewable supply (including to heavy industry) which isn't too bad given they have alumina smelters and other massive power sucks. https://www.energymining.sa.gov.au/industry/modern-energy/leading-the-green-economy https://www.energymining.sa.gov.au/industry/modern-energy/le...
- lm28469 3y ago
  Remind me what's the population density australia ? And how much sunlight do they get ? Of course if your country is a literal flat desert getting 2-4x the sun it's a bit easier to make it work, for anything north of Maghreb it's game over, too many people, too energy dense, not enough sun.
  - defrost 3y ago
    > Remind me Why, is your internet down? > what's the population density australia ? Very much the wrong question for several reasons: * Australia's population is seriously urban, to the point of ridicule by Jack Davis[1] who referred to the european descedents as "fringedwellers" for their habit of clinging to the fringes of the continent in a few very large cities - you'd be wanting to look to the population density figures for Sydney / Melbourne to get a sense of how the majority of Australians live * More importantly the energy demands of Australia, the country, are quite different to the energy demands of the Australian people - as a bulk exporter of raw materials the bulk of energy used in Australia goes towards goods used by an very large number of others in the world poplation. By way of example, W.Australia a single state with a population of 2 million exports 16x more iron ore every year than than the USofA ever achieved in a single year - this goes towards a being a major percentage of the global demand for steel. * You're looking more for the kind of figure that relates to the energy demands for the size of the market served and less to the energy demands of the few individuals that happen to live nearby. > And how much sunlight do they get ? This is, of course, irrelevant for the question of the example I gave, Adelaide in South Australia. They do not use the total sunlight that falls on the total area of the country of Australia. That project uses the sunlight that falls just outside a city on the 35th parallel south which gets the same amount of sunlight as a city on the 35th parallel north. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Davis_(playwright) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Davis_(playwright)
    - Qwertious 3y ago
      To back up your point: [half the population of Australia](https://i.imgur.com/dA92oJp.png https://i.imgur.com/dA92oJp.png), marked in red. That said, I think this misses the parent comment's point: Australia has a bunch more empty land than Europe. Which is true but not that important, as Europe has plenty of land to build renewables on, and quite often the reason for "lack of land" in Europe is political, not geographic - Germany is a particularly famous example, with absurdly restrictive zoning restrictions on wind turbines, based on pseudoscience.
      - defrost 3y ago
        > That said, I think this misses the parent comment's point My answer might appear to have but I knew what they were attempting to convey under their attitude. I chose to address a few other important considerations. Leaving that aside, Australia might be back on track to export sunlight via cable to Singapore. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38148409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38148409 The distance and the technology don't concern me nearly as much as the route; it's a hotbed of faults, a few deep trenches, and prone to earthquakes and volcanoes. I also question the implied snub of Indonesia - they have a very large population and might appreciate some power, Australia may also benefit from the diplomacy aspects also.
otherme123 3y ago
Virtually everyone is replacing fossil with solar and wind. In Spain or UK coal is gone. In Europe coal went from 30% to 15% since 2000, wind + solar went from 0% to 25% in the same timespan. All of it while nuclear is also falling. But of course you bring up the only one case in the world that net replaced nuclear with coal. And you "support" your claim with a graph that shows coal and nuclear falling and being replaced with solar and eolic, and Germany using less absolute dirty energy than 20 years ago despite doubling production.