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The part that is ‘new’ is that RAM is no longer user serviceable on macs, so you cannot buy a base Mac and upgrade later by adding more ram from an alternate ve

The part that is ‘new’ is that RAM is no longer user serviceable on macs, so you cannot buy a base Mac and upgrade later by adding more ram from an alternate vendor, probably at 1/3 the price. That said, RAM doesn’t seem to quite be the same performance wise since it’s been integrated into SOC. You seem to get more utility for less RAM - I’m assuming that SSD storage being tightly integrated helps a great deal.

angoragoats 3y ago
This is a misconception; the RAM is not integrated into the SoC, it’s standard off-the-shelf LPDDR4X (M1) or LPDDR5 (M2/M3), soldered right next to the SoC. The SSD is usually soldered or even socketed in a proprietary connector (in the case of the Mac Studio or Pro and maybe others), somewhere on the main board, just like a PC.
- chorsestudios 3y ago
  Is this statement true? In this die shot of the M1 Max the RAM appears to be integrated into the SoC https://images.anandtech.com/doci/17019/M1MAX.jpg https://images.anandtech.com/doci/17019/M1MAX.jpg
  - addaon 3y ago
    What you're seeing there labelled LPDDR5 is the memory /controllers/, not the memory itself. The silicon area for the amount of DRAM we're talking about would dwarf the IC you're looking at -- and the 3 nm process that the logic is made on is not compatible with deep-well capacitors used for DRAM. There's a significant amount of SRAM on the chip (the SLC blocks, and many other cache blocks), but orders of magnitude less than the external DRAM we're discussing.
    - chorsestudios 3y ago
      Thank you for this information, exactly what I was looking for
- rasz 3y ago
  To be precise RAM is soldered on top of SoC in a PoP package. SSD is a proprietary PCIE NAND with signed firmware.
  - angoragoats 3y ago
    > To be precise RAM is soldered on top of SoC in a PoP package. No, it’s not. A stacked PoP (not “PoP package,” that’s redundant) is used for recent A-series mobile CPUs, but on M1/M2/M3 the memory is soldered on a PCB directly adjacent to the CPU. This allows for better heat dissipation and therefore higher clock speeds and memory bandwidth.
musicale 3y ago
> The part that is ‘new’ is that RAM is no longer user serviceable on macs 'New' definitely deserves quotes it's only a recent change for desktop Macs - laptop Macs have had non-upgradable RAM for more than a decade. Apple Silicon Macs (not to mention iPhones and iPads) have never had user-upgradable RAM.

angoragoats 3y ago

This is a misconception; the RAM is not integrated into the SoC, it’s standard off-the-shelf LPDDR4X (M1) or LPDDR5 (M2/M3), soldered right next to the SoC. The SSD is usually soldered or even socketed in a proprietary connector (in the case of the Mac Studio or Pro and maybe others), somewhere on the main board, just like a PC.

chorsestudios 3y ago
Is this statement true? In this die shot of the M1 Max the RAM appears to be integrated into the SoC https://images.anandtech.com/doci/17019/M1MAX.jpg https://images.anandtech.com/doci/17019/M1MAX.jpg
- addaon 3y ago
  What you're seeing there labelled LPDDR5 is the memory /controllers/, not the memory itself. The silicon area for the amount of DRAM we're talking about would dwarf the IC you're looking at -- and the 3 nm process that the logic is made on is not compatible with deep-well capacitors used for DRAM. There's a significant amount of SRAM on the chip (the SLC blocks, and many other cache blocks), but orders of magnitude less than the external DRAM we're discussing.
  - chorsestudios 3y ago
    Thank you for this information, exactly what I was looking for
rasz 3y ago
To be precise RAM is soldered on top of SoC in a PoP package. SSD is a proprietary PCIE NAND with signed firmware.
- angoragoats 3y ago
  > To be precise RAM is soldered on top of SoC in a PoP package. No, it’s not. A stacked PoP (not “PoP package,” that’s redundant) is used for recent A-series mobile CPUs, but on M1/M2/M3 the memory is soldered on a PCB directly adjacent to the CPU. This allows for better heat dissipation and therefore higher clock speeds and memory bandwidth.

musicale 3y ago

> The part that is ‘new’ is that RAM is no longer user serviceable on macs 'New' definitely deserves quotes it's only a recent change for desktop Macs - laptop Macs have had non-upgradable RAM for more than a decade. Apple Silicon Macs (not to mention iPhones and iPads) have never had user-upgradable RAM.