5 ms·

> we don't need more base power This reads as "building nuclear is pointless because we have already have plenty of coal" I think you'll have a hard time pers

> we don't need more base power This reads as "building nuclear is pointless because we have already have plenty of coal" I think you'll have a hard time persuading anyone of anything after dropping that turd. The only reason new power sources are even a topic of discussion is because continued use of fossil fuel is off the table. The existing base load sources need to be replaced with something, and nuclear is the only game in town.

lamontcg 3y ago
> In 2013, the plant achieved continuous production, operating 24 hours per day for 36 consecutive days https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemasolar_Thermosolar_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemasolar_Thermosolar_Plant
- throwaway7679 3y ago
  This is a molten salt system heated by solar. It can output power for one night, but only when there is enough latent heat from the previous day. Any number of consecutive days of operation is a lucky streak. A single day of non-ideal sunlight will shut it down.
  - lamontcg 3y ago
    Make the solar plant and the molten salt battery larger, and build more of them, they can store power for up to a week. You can also charge the battery off of excess wind (or run nat gas in some kind of power emergency).
    - throwaway7679 3y ago
      There are significant issues that limit the scalability of these systems in terms of power, capacity, and duration. Building larger heat storage capacity, for example, would be useless if it cools down before being used. Long-term storage is an area of active research. There is reason to believe[1] that the technology could improve in the future, but until that is proven to be viable the state of the art for duration is "a few hours". Speculation doesn't keep the lights on. The grid can only be powered by things that actually work in the present. [1] https://spectrum.ieee.org/long-term-energy-storage-molten-salt https://spectrum.ieee.org/long-term-energy-storage-molten-sa...
      - lamontcg 3y ago
        > With proper insulation of the tank the thermal energy can be usefully stored for up to a week.[15] > [15] Ehrlich, Robert (2013). "Thermal storage". Renewable Energy: A First Course. CRC Press. p. 375. ISBN 978-1-4398-6115-8. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage#Molten_salt_technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage#Molten_...
        throwaway7679 3y ago
        That book[1] speaks of the Andasol Solar Power Station, and makes several dubious statements about it. The one being cited is: > The well-insulated tanks where molten salt is stored contain enough thermal energy for up to a week A false claim. It has enough energy for 7.5 hours. (149.7MW/1123MWh) In any case, is says nothing about duration. The wiki writer may have just mistaken capacity for duration. I couldn't find any evidence of this power station storing energy for any amount of time. It's used on the night immediately after the day that charged it. [1] https://books.google.com/books?id=Y693JNsoS4gC&q=375 https://books.google.com/books?id=Y693JNsoS4gC&q=375

lamontcg 3y ago

> In 2013, the plant achieved continuous production, operating 24 hours per day for 36 consecutive days https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemasolar_Thermosolar_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemasolar_Thermosolar_Plant

throwaway7679 3y ago
This is a molten salt system heated by solar. It can output power for one night, but only when there is enough latent heat from the previous day. Any number of consecutive days of operation is a lucky streak. A single day of non-ideal sunlight will shut it down.
- lamontcg 3y ago
  Make the solar plant and the molten salt battery larger, and build more of them, they can store power for up to a week. You can also charge the battery off of excess wind (or run nat gas in some kind of power emergency).
  - throwaway7679 3y ago
    There are significant issues that limit the scalability of these systems in terms of power, capacity, and duration. Building larger heat storage capacity, for example, would be useless if it cools down before being used. Long-term storage is an area of active research. There is reason to believe[1] that the technology could improve in the future, but until that is proven to be viable the state of the art for duration is "a few hours". Speculation doesn't keep the lights on. The grid can only be powered by things that actually work in the present. [1] https://spectrum.ieee.org/long-term-energy-storage-molten-salt https://spectrum.ieee.org/long-term-energy-storage-molten-sa...
    - lamontcg 3y ago
      > With proper insulation of the tank the thermal energy can be usefully stored for up to a week.[15] > [15] Ehrlich, Robert (2013). "Thermal storage". Renewable Energy: A First Course. CRC Press. p. 375. ISBN 978-1-4398-6115-8. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage#Molten_salt_technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage#Molten_...
      - throwaway7679 3y ago
        That book[1] speaks of the Andasol Solar Power Station, and makes several dubious statements about it. The one being cited is: > The well-insulated tanks where molten salt is stored contain enough thermal energy for up to a week A false claim. It has enough energy for 7.5 hours. (149.7MW/1123MWh) In any case, is says nothing about duration. The wiki writer may have just mistaken capacity for duration. I couldn't find any evidence of this power station storing energy for any amount of time. It's used on the night immediately after the day that charged it. [1] https://books.google.com/books?id=Y693JNsoS4gC&q=375 https://books.google.com/books?id=Y693JNsoS4gC&q=375