6 ms·

Non-gmos use pesticides, nearly all farming does, and usually more than GMO crops. Eg https://i0.wp.com/sitn.hms.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/fig2pes

Non-gmos use pesticides, nearly all farming does, and usually more than GMO crops. Eg https://i0.wp.com/sitn.hms.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/fig2pesticides.png https://i0.wp.com/sitn.hms.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/20... From https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2015/gmos-and-pesticides/ https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2015/gmos-and-pesticides/

jdblair 3y ago
Roundup isn't a pesticide, or an insecticide (as the charts above are labeled). Roundup is an herbicide, which is why it is so useful to combine with GMO crops. When you spray a field for weeds with Roundup, your crop doesn’t die because it has resistance built in. More clearly, Roundup kills weeds, not bugs.
- selcuka 3y ago
  > Roundup isn't a pesticide, or an insecticide (as the charts above are labeled). Roundup is an herbicide Pesticide is an umbrella term for herbicides, insecticides, and other types of substances. If you've read the paper, it mentions that too: > Pesticides are substances used to repel, kill, or control animals (insecticides) or plants (herbicides) that are considered to be pests. You are correct, though, in that while insecticide use decreased (because GMOs help insect resistance), herbicide use has actually increased because of herbicide tolerance of GMO crops.
  - jdblair 3y ago
    Ok! Thanks for the correction!
    - clbrmbr 3y ago
      This was a new one for me, too.
  - ckrapu 3y ago
    This definition might be true in some places but the vernacular usage of “pesticide” by users is slanted towards targeting animal life and not plants.
dade_ 3y ago
[flagged]
KennyBlanken 3y ago
In Europe where GMOs are banned and pesticide use is lower...yields are higher than in the US. "We need to use poison to grow food to feed everyone" is bunch of false-dilemma poppycock. If it were truly a matter of "we need to feed everyone", we wouldn't be wasting massive amounts of grain on raising cattle, which is one of most wasteful ways of generating food there is. 80% of agricultural land is used for cattle, but they only represent 20% of the calories in food consumed. We also wouldn't be growing corn just to turn it into ethanol, a net-energy-negative process. We also wouldn't be controlling the price of sugar, thus creating a huge demand for corn to turn into corn syrup. Corn is also an incredibly resource-intensive crop all on its own, and the monocropping is terrible for the soil. But corn is where the money is..
- batch12 3y ago
  > 80% of agricultural land is used for cattle I don't think this is true. Did you mean livestock?
  - b112 3y ago
    On top of that, much land cattle graze on is entirely unsuitable for growing crops.
- rschneid 3y ago
  Anecdotally, I think pesticides become 'necessary' when a specific farm desires greater than a particular density of crop. Sure, the collective can achieve sufficient production with less use of these chemicals however when a farm is at a point where their plants are touching each other then serious pesticides are required if they wish to increase their yield further without pests becoming a catastrophic risk to the entire operation. If only we could all agree to just grow 'enough' instead of growing as much as science allows...
  - hinkley 3y ago
    Once we started expecting farmers to be specialists instead of generalists. If you only know apples you want as many of them as you can fit. Which means pathogens have a buffet laid out.
squeaky-clean 3y ago
I don't know if what they're saying is true, but I don't think they're saying non-GMO plants don't use pesticides. They're saying GMO crops use even stronger pesticides, strong enough that it would kill the non-GMO variants of these plants. And they want to avoid the kind of pesticides in their salad that would kill a non-modified lettuce, or whatever plant.

jdblair 3y ago

Roundup isn't a pesticide, or an insecticide (as the charts above are labeled). Roundup is an herbicide, which is why it is so useful to combine with GMO crops. When you spray a field for weeds with Roundup, your crop doesn’t die because it has resistance built in. More clearly, Roundup kills weeds, not bugs.

selcuka 3y ago
> Roundup isn't a pesticide, or an insecticide (as the charts above are labeled). Roundup is an herbicide Pesticide is an umbrella term for herbicides, insecticides, and other types of substances. If you've read the paper, it mentions that too: > Pesticides are substances used to repel, kill, or control animals (insecticides) or plants (herbicides) that are considered to be pests. You are correct, though, in that while insecticide use decreased (because GMOs help insect resistance), herbicide use has actually increased because of herbicide tolerance of GMO crops.
- jdblair 3y ago
  Ok! Thanks for the correction!
  - clbrmbr 3y ago
    This was a new one for me, too.
- ckrapu 3y ago
  This definition might be true in some places but the vernacular usage of “pesticide” by users is slanted towards targeting animal life and not plants.

dade_ 3y ago

[flagged]

KennyBlanken 3y ago

In Europe where GMOs are banned and pesticide use is lower...yields are higher than in the US. "We need to use poison to grow food to feed everyone" is bunch of false-dilemma poppycock. If it were truly a matter of "we need to feed everyone", we wouldn't be wasting massive amounts of grain on raising cattle, which is one of most wasteful ways of generating food there is. 80% of agricultural land is used for cattle, but they only represent 20% of the calories in food consumed. We also wouldn't be growing corn just to turn it into ethanol, a net-energy-negative process. We also wouldn't be controlling the price of sugar, thus creating a huge demand for corn to turn into corn syrup. Corn is also an incredibly resource-intensive crop all on its own, and the monocropping is terrible for the soil. But corn is where the money is..

batch12 3y ago
> 80% of agricultural land is used for cattle I don't think this is true. Did you mean livestock?
- b112 3y ago
  On top of that, much land cattle graze on is entirely unsuitable for growing crops.
rschneid 3y ago
Anecdotally, I think pesticides become 'necessary' when a specific farm desires greater than a particular density of crop. Sure, the collective can achieve sufficient production with less use of these chemicals however when a farm is at a point where their plants are touching each other then serious pesticides are required if they wish to increase their yield further without pests becoming a catastrophic risk to the entire operation. If only we could all agree to just grow 'enough' instead of growing as much as science allows...
- hinkley 3y ago
  Once we started expecting farmers to be specialists instead of generalists. If you only know apples you want as many of them as you can fit. Which means pathogens have a buffet laid out.

squeaky-clean 3y ago

I don't know if what they're saying is true, but I don't think they're saying non-GMO plants don't use pesticides. They're saying GMO crops use even stronger pesticides, strong enough that it would kill the non-GMO variants of these plants. And they want to avoid the kind of pesticides in their salad that would kill a non-modified lettuce, or whatever plant.