4 ms·

I wish they'd give podman compose just a little bit of love. It's been in a perpetual alpha state for a few years now. E.g. https://github.com/containers/podma

by pydry 3y ago

I wish they'd give podman compose just a little bit of love. It's been in a perpetual alpha state for a few years now. E.g. https://github.com/containers/podman-compose/issues/626 https://github.com/containers/podman-compose/issues/626 https://github.com/containers/podman-compose/issues/489 https://github.com/containers/podman-compose/issues/489 The PRs are being neglected too e.g.: https://github.com/containers/podman-compose/pull/521 https://github.com/containers/podman-compose/pull/521

mogwire 3y ago
I think this is on purpose. Podman is suppose to be a stepping stone to OpenShift. They don’t want people using it for anything other than development. How many workloads that are currently on OpenShift could sit on a RHEL server behind a load balancer and work just as well? I would wager that the average OpenShift cluster is under 10 nodes, runs COTS software, and a bunch of security and logging apps like Dynatrace and just sits there primarily under utilizes because the COTS vendor is a RH partner and stopped shipping RPMs and said we only support OpenShift moving forward.
MuffinFlavored 3y ago
Why not write a Helm chart and deploy it locally with Helm or ArgoCD?
- chucky_z 3y ago
  You're being downvoted. I disagree with that vote, as I cannot tell if this is serious or sarcasm and that makes it an excellent comment.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 3y ago
    Well, once you imagine doing this, you'll quickly realize it is actually sarcasm.
    - mbreese 3y ago
      I don’t know… I used to routinely install HPC batch schedulers on my laptops, so I could see someone legitimately doing this (unironically too).
- pydry 3y ago
  I'm too busy creating Bazel buildfiles for enterprise fizzbuzz deploying it with kubernetes.
Volundr 3y ago
Out of curiosity, why do you not want to use the real docker compose with podman, now that it's supported?
- arcanemachiner 3y ago
  Is it? I think Podman only works with "docker-compose" (the Python-based tool that can be installed separately from Docker, which Podman is compatible with, which is now deprecated) as opposed to "docker compose" (the Golang-based plugin which is integrated into Docker Engine, which I think Podman is not (yet?) compatible with). Would love to be proven wrong, as I ended up down quite a rabbit hole with this topic somewhat recently.
  - sigotirandolas 3y ago
    The Golang version, aka. Compose v2 can also be used standalone (they even have prebuilt binaries in their GitHub repository) and is compatible with Podman. Behind the scenes both Compose v1 and v2 use the Docker API which is also implemented by Podman (`podman system service`). In my experience they work fine together most of the time, I have ran into compatibility bugs sometimes, though things seem to be steadily improving.
    - arcanemachiner 3y ago
      Well that's good to know. I ended up going back to Docker containers, but hopefully this means I can take another look at Podman again!
- pydry 3y ago
  Half of the point of podman was to avoid the need to run things with root. Docker compose expects me to have a server running. While I technically could run "podman system service" and configure docker compose to point at a non-standard socket or port in order to run it I would really prefer not to have that kind of headache just to run a script. Docker compose was also written by docker and exhibits similar levels of shoddiness to docker. The accumulation of bad design decisions by docker is, indeed, why podman exists in the first place. With a little bit of love podman compose could easily surpass docker compose.
Rapzid 3y ago
I was under the impression they were sidelining compose in favor of their k8s manifest flavor which.. Well, let's just say I've never been in a compose file and thought "Man, I wish I was writing k8s manifest syntax".
- dboreham 3y ago
  You can write a tool that translates between compose format and k8s-babble on-the-fly. When I say you, I mean me. That's my current project.
  - tuananh 3y ago
    isn't that https://github.com/kubernetes/kompose https://github.com/kubernetes/kompose ?
janejeon 3y ago
We've been using podman compose for semi-production purposes at our company and that's been our experience as well. It's just... it's really rough, there are a ton of "known" issues, and it's rather unreliable. As a result, I've been really trying to push the "just use the docker daemon in prod instead" (to no avail... yet).
- dboreham 3y ago
  > "just use the docker daemon in prod instead" Can you expand on what that means?
  - drzaiusx11 3y ago
    Not op, but the suggestion is likely to use Podman Desktop during local container development. Then switch to the docker runtime in production systems (ec2 etc.) Podman and Docker Engine are both OCI runtimes. The theory being that containers reproducablly run across different runtimes without changes in behavior.
- ftmch 3y ago
  Switching to Docker in production would probably reveal some edge cases, if not outright incompatibilities, at some point.
sodality2 3y ago
I use podman compose in my SaaS to automate and make deployment easier for docker containers, it works great in my simple docker compose (image, name, port expose, volume. that’s it). I suppose use case matters, and mine is very simple, but i’ll just toss one more N=1 in the ring.

by pydry 3y ago

mogwire 3y ago

I think this is on purpose. Podman is suppose to be a stepping stone to OpenShift. They don’t want people using it for anything other than development. How many workloads that are currently on OpenShift could sit on a RHEL server behind a load balancer and work just as well? I would wager that the average OpenShift cluster is under 10 nodes, runs COTS software, and a bunch of security and logging apps like Dynatrace and just sits there primarily under utilizes because the COTS vendor is a RH partner and stopped shipping RPMs and said we only support OpenShift moving forward.

MuffinFlavored 3y ago

Why not write a Helm chart and deploy it locally with Helm or ArgoCD?

chucky_z 3y ago
You're being downvoted. I disagree with that vote, as I cannot tell if this is serious or sarcasm and that makes it an excellent comment.
- dvfjsdhgfv 3y ago
  Well, once you imagine doing this, you'll quickly realize it is actually sarcasm.
  - mbreese 3y ago
    I don’t know… I used to routinely install HPC batch schedulers on my laptops, so I could see someone legitimately doing this (unironically too).
pydry 3y ago
I'm too busy creating Bazel buildfiles for enterprise fizzbuzz deploying it with kubernetes.

Volundr 3y ago

Out of curiosity, why do you not want to use the real docker compose with podman, now that it's supported?

arcanemachiner 3y ago
Is it? I think Podman only works with "docker-compose" (the Python-based tool that can be installed separately from Docker, which Podman is compatible with, which is now deprecated) as opposed to "docker compose" (the Golang-based plugin which is integrated into Docker Engine, which I think Podman is not (yet?) compatible with). Would love to be proven wrong, as I ended up down quite a rabbit hole with this topic somewhat recently.
- sigotirandolas 3y ago
  The Golang version, aka. Compose v2 can also be used standalone (they even have prebuilt binaries in their GitHub repository) and is compatible with Podman. Behind the scenes both Compose v1 and v2 use the Docker API which is also implemented by Podman (`podman system service`). In my experience they work fine together most of the time, I have ran into compatibility bugs sometimes, though things seem to be steadily improving.
  - arcanemachiner 3y ago
    Well that's good to know. I ended up going back to Docker containers, but hopefully this means I can take another look at Podman again!
pydry 3y ago
Half of the point of podman was to avoid the need to run things with root. Docker compose expects me to have a server running. While I technically could run "podman system service" and configure docker compose to point at a non-standard socket or port in order to run it I would really prefer not to have that kind of headache just to run a script. Docker compose was also written by docker and exhibits similar levels of shoddiness to docker. The accumulation of bad design decisions by docker is, indeed, why podman exists in the first place. With a little bit of love podman compose could easily surpass docker compose.

Rapzid 3y ago

I was under the impression they were sidelining compose in favor of their k8s manifest flavor which.. Well, let's just say I've never been in a compose file and thought "Man, I wish I was writing k8s manifest syntax".

dboreham 3y ago
You can write a tool that translates between compose format and k8s-babble on-the-fly. When I say you, I mean me. That's my current project.
- tuananh 3y ago
  isn't that https://github.com/kubernetes/kompose https://github.com/kubernetes/kompose ?

janejeon 3y ago

We've been using podman compose for semi-production purposes at our company and that's been our experience as well. It's just... it's really rough, there are a ton of "known" issues, and it's rather unreliable. As a result, I've been really trying to push the "just use the docker daemon in prod instead" (to no avail... yet).

dboreham 3y ago
> "just use the docker daemon in prod instead" Can you expand on what that means?
- drzaiusx11 3y ago
  Not op, but the suggestion is likely to use Podman Desktop during local container development. Then switch to the docker runtime in production systems (ec2 etc.) Podman and Docker Engine are both OCI runtimes. The theory being that containers reproducablly run across different runtimes without changes in behavior.
ftmch 3y ago
Switching to Docker in production would probably reveal some edge cases, if not outright incompatibilities, at some point.

sodality2 3y ago

I use podman compose in my SaaS to automate and make deployment easier for docker containers, it works great in my simple docker compose (image, name, port expose, volume. that’s it). I suppose use case matters, and mine is very simple, but i’ll just toss one more N=1 in the ring.