3 ms·

Cryptocurrencies have no value, what do you intend on taxing?

hgomersall 3y ago
I suspect you're aware that your rhetorical question rather neatly makes the point that taxing in crypto would immediately (and for crypto-bros, ironically) imbue them with value.
- alphanullmeric 3y ago
  What’s the point you’re trying to make? Do cryptocurrencies have value or not? It’s one or the other, you can’t claim they have value when you want to tax them and then claim they don’t when you want to regulate them.
  - hgomersall 3y ago
    That the process of taxation in a certain money is a sufficient condition to give that money value.
    - alphanullmeric 3y ago
      I’m not asking you to “give” my money value. I’m asking you to answer a simple yes or no question: does it currently have value or not? The way you’re trying to defend your obvious lack of consistency is purely circular. If it has value, you tax it. You can’t say that if you tax it then it’ll have value that justifies taxing it the first place.
      - hgomersall 3y ago
        If you can use it to satisfy your tax liability, then it has value.
        alphanullmeric 3y ago
        It’s a yes or no question.
        hgomersall 3y ago
        I think your difficulty is in understanding what states hope to achieve by taxing, which is not in order to capture some "value" from the thing being taxed. To them, crypto obviously has no value beyond anything they can do with the crypto (i.e. none). On the other hand those that fall under the tax jurisdiction of a state have a tax liability and whatever unit they can satisfy that liability in has value. The fact that states can't issue more crypto on demand is why they'd be stupid to ever pay attention to it, much less let people pay their taxes in it. Crypto is not even money in the sense that it doesn't represent a debt, which is where the value of money is derived from.
        alphanullmeric 3y ago
        Without fail, every single time I ask person like you a yes or no question, I receive an essay evading the question in response.
        hgomersall 3y ago
        That's because your question is not meaningful. You haven't found some great way to catch people out, you've just found the limits of your understanding. That's great, it's a chance to understand where the problem with the posed dichotomy lies. The reason I'm here is to discuss issues, which means more than single word answers. I'd love for you to respond in a way that actually challenged what I'm saying, or questioned it more deeply or whatever. I'm not here to win; I'm here to learn.
        alphanullmeric 3y ago
        Whether or not crypto can be used to pay taxes is irrelevant to whether or not it holds the value to be taxed itself. But you’re demanding that I address an argument you made in an attempt to evade an argument I made. You’re now trying to have it both ways in more than one way. My question has a yes or no answer, you can either give me a yes or no or I’ll answer for you. I’m not interested in letting you continue to run from your obvious lack of consistency while asking me to let you try everything and see what sticks.

I suspect you're aware that your rhetorical question rather neatly makes the point that taxing in crypto would immediately (and for crypto-bros, ironically) imbue them with value.

alphanullmeric 3y ago
What’s the point you’re trying to make? Do cryptocurrencies have value or not? It’s one or the other, you can’t claim they have value when you want to tax them and then claim they don’t when you want to regulate them.
- hgomersall 3y ago
  That the process of taxation in a certain money is a sufficient condition to give that money value.
  - alphanullmeric 3y ago
    I’m not asking you to “give” my money value. I’m asking you to answer a simple yes or no question: does it currently have value or not? The way you’re trying to defend your obvious lack of consistency is purely circular. If it has value, you tax it. You can’t say that if you tax it then it’ll have value that justifies taxing it the first place.
    - hgomersall 3y ago
      If you can use it to satisfy your tax liability, then it has value.
      - alphanullmeric 3y ago
        It’s a yes or no question.
        hgomersall 3y ago
        I think your difficulty is in understanding what states hope to achieve by taxing, which is not in order to capture some "value" from the thing being taxed. To them, crypto obviously has no value beyond anything they can do with the crypto (i.e. none). On the other hand those that fall under the tax jurisdiction of a state have a tax liability and whatever unit they can satisfy that liability in has value. The fact that states can't issue more crypto on demand is why they'd be stupid to ever pay attention to it, much less let people pay their taxes in it. Crypto is not even money in the sense that it doesn't represent a debt, which is where the value of money is derived from.
        alphanullmeric 3y ago
        Without fail, every single time I ask person like you a yes or no question, I receive an essay evading the question in response.
        hgomersall 3y ago
        That's because your question is not meaningful. You haven't found some great way to catch people out, you've just found the limits of your understanding. That's great, it's a chance to understand where the problem with the posed dichotomy lies. The reason I'm here is to discuss issues, which means more than single word answers. I'd love for you to respond in a way that actually challenged what I'm saying, or questioned it more deeply or whatever. I'm not here to win; I'm here to learn.
        alphanullmeric 3y ago
        Whether or not crypto can be used to pay taxes is irrelevant to whether or not it holds the value to be taxed itself. But you’re demanding that I address an argument you made in an attempt to evade an argument I made. You’re now trying to have it both ways in more than one way. My question has a yes or no answer, you can either give me a yes or no or I’ll answer for you. I’m not interested in letting you continue to run from your obvious lack of consistency while asking me to let you try everything and see what sticks.