4 ms·

Why not hire hardware engineers to write software then?

by wruza 3y ago

smt88 3y ago
Software engineers are cheaper and more plentiful
- wruza 3y ago
  Cheaper?
s1artibartfast 3y ago
Because software development isnt an engineering task. Engineers are good at building bridges, and artists are good at making paintings. That doesnt mean it is a good idea to have the engineers paint paintings.
- wruza 3y ago
  That’s the point. It’s not software developer’s fault that things are the way they are. Anyone with strict engineering discipline or whatever is welcome to create software the right way.
- ganzuul 3y ago
  To artists, engineers are artists who are good at math. Art is for everyone. Painting is a special form of art. Math makes for beautiful art, so download LibreCAD and free your mind. (Speaking as an ex. IT guy, ex. CNC machinist who is attending art school at the age of 40 as a form of rehab.)
- stronglikedan 3y ago
  Software engineers for critical systems would like a word.
  - gretch 3y ago
    Yeah it makes no sense. Like, you build an airplane and clearly the airplane needs both it's software and it's hardware in order to fly. Somehow the people who made the hardware are engineers, but the people who made the software aren't engineers.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      Nobody reasonable is saying that software isn't important, technical, or valuable. It isnt a dig. It just has to do with the subject matter and definition of Engineer. The clearest delineation is that an Engineers work is the application the laws of physics. Software developers are more akin to Scientists than Engineers. They work in the arrangement of logic and the semantic relation of abstractions. That is to say, Engineers work within a framework of rules, and Computer scientists construct frameworks of rules.
      - gretch 3y ago
        The definitions you just came up with are completely arbitrary. Worst yet, your definitions aren't even shared. It's hard to pin down exact agreed upon definitions in English, but I searched many popular dictionaries and none of them have "Engineers work is the application the laws of physics". Fair enough if you want to have personal definitions of words, but don't try to gaslight the rest of us into thinking your understanding is the canonical one. Here's my facetious definition to illustrate how dumb the discussion - I think an engineer is a person who works with ENGINES (duh it's in the name). Obviously people who build bridges aren't engineers; do bridges have engines?
        toast0 3y ago
        Some bridges do have engines, many more have motive force. Of course, a lot of them just stand there, not doing much at all. But, someone who isn't wearing a blue and white stripey hat can't possibly be an engineer.
        s1artibartfast 3y ago
        I brought up a definition shared by many people, and did so without hostility. Do you have a real definition that you can bring to the table? Is there a reason why you are taking things personally? Can you articulate the difference between an engineer and a scientist?
- defrost 3y ago
  It might help to learn a little more about Engineering. Leaving aside the four splits, Civil, Mechanical, Electrical, and Electronic with the obvious corollary that few Engineers build bridges, I'm reminded of my first student Engineering project back in 1983 (ish). Building a sheep shearing robot - hardware and software, with no pre existing libraries of control software, etc. https://research-repository.uwa.edu.au/en/clippings/how-necessity-inspires-invention-in-the-mind-of-engineer-james-tr https://research-repository.uwa.edu.au/en/clippings/how-nece... https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/robotica/article/abs/robots-for-shearing-sheep-shear-magic-by-james-p-trevelyan-oxford-science-publications-oxford-university-press-1992-398-pages-incl-index-4000/FD1CB3D3AF1E626FC0731A6C6B9A6B2B https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/robotica/article/abs... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAh2zv7TMM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAh2zv7TMM A great chunk of software was written by Peter Kovesi .. a mechanical engineer still working on computer vision projects today: https://peterkovesi.com/projects/ https://peterkovesi.com/projects/ You sound more than a little ignorant of the breadth and depth of talent in the world and more than a little inclined to believe that people can be boxed up and ring fenced by your particular world view. No sheep were harmed in the making of this robot. Sheep literally fell asleep when secured.
tom_ 3y ago
Try it and report back!
QuadmasterXLII 3y ago
Building as practiced by hardware engineers is not linear in number of unique components. Building as practiced by software engineers is, at a terrible price.
gerdesj 3y ago
I learned ForTran whilst studying Civ Eng. back in '89 - '91 . Notice the two digit year - you software lot gave us the Y2K snag 8) It seems rather silly these days when terabytes are trivially available but when every bit, byte and nybble costed rather a lot, it nearly made sense. If software techies/engineers wish to push back, may I suggest: Tay bridge, Tacoma Narrows, Millennium bridge and concrete cancer. Comet commercial jet airliners and the many snags that lead to fillets and rounded corners on ships int al. Do we count Titanic as "user error" or inappropriate expectations exceeded?

Why not hire hardware engineers to write software then?

by wruza 3y ago

Why not hire hardware engineers to write software then?

smt88 3y ago

Software engineers are cheaper and more plentiful

wruza 3y ago
Cheaper?

s1artibartfast 3y ago

Because software development isnt an engineering task. Engineers are good at building bridges, and artists are good at making paintings. That doesnt mean it is a good idea to have the engineers paint paintings.

wruza 3y ago
That’s the point. It’s not software developer’s fault that things are the way they are. Anyone with strict engineering discipline or whatever is welcome to create software the right way.
ganzuul 3y ago
To artists, engineers are artists who are good at math. Art is for everyone. Painting is a special form of art. Math makes for beautiful art, so download LibreCAD and free your mind. (Speaking as an ex. IT guy, ex. CNC machinist who is attending art school at the age of 40 as a form of rehab.)
stronglikedan 3y ago
Software engineers for critical systems would like a word.
- gretch 3y ago
  Yeah it makes no sense. Like, you build an airplane and clearly the airplane needs both it's software and it's hardware in order to fly. Somehow the people who made the hardware are engineers, but the people who made the software aren't engineers.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    Nobody reasonable is saying that software isn't important, technical, or valuable. It isnt a dig. It just has to do with the subject matter and definition of Engineer. The clearest delineation is that an Engineers work is the application the laws of physics. Software developers are more akin to Scientists than Engineers. They work in the arrangement of logic and the semantic relation of abstractions. That is to say, Engineers work within a framework of rules, and Computer scientists construct frameworks of rules.
    - gretch 3y ago
      The definitions you just came up with are completely arbitrary. Worst yet, your definitions aren't even shared. It's hard to pin down exact agreed upon definitions in English, but I searched many popular dictionaries and none of them have "Engineers work is the application the laws of physics". Fair enough if you want to have personal definitions of words, but don't try to gaslight the rest of us into thinking your understanding is the canonical one. Here's my facetious definition to illustrate how dumb the discussion - I think an engineer is a person who works with ENGINES (duh it's in the name). Obviously people who build bridges aren't engineers; do bridges have engines?
      - toast0 3y ago
        Some bridges do have engines, many more have motive force. Of course, a lot of them just stand there, not doing much at all. But, someone who isn't wearing a blue and white stripey hat can't possibly be an engineer.
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        I brought up a definition shared by many people, and did so without hostility. Do you have a real definition that you can bring to the table? Is there a reason why you are taking things personally? Can you articulate the difference between an engineer and a scientist?
defrost 3y ago
It might help to learn a little more about Engineering. Leaving aside the four splits, Civil, Mechanical, Electrical, and Electronic with the obvious corollary that few Engineers build bridges, I'm reminded of my first student Engineering project back in 1983 (ish). Building a sheep shearing robot - hardware and software, with no pre existing libraries of control software, etc. https://research-repository.uwa.edu.au/en/clippings/how-necessity-inspires-invention-in-the-mind-of-engineer-james-tr https://research-repository.uwa.edu.au/en/clippings/how-nece... https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/robotica/article/abs/robots-for-shearing-sheep-shear-magic-by-james-p-trevelyan-oxford-science-publications-oxford-university-press-1992-398-pages-incl-index-4000/FD1CB3D3AF1E626FC0731A6C6B9A6B2B https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/robotica/article/abs... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAh2zv7TMM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAh2zv7TMM A great chunk of software was written by Peter Kovesi .. a mechanical engineer still working on computer vision projects today: https://peterkovesi.com/projects/ https://peterkovesi.com/projects/ You sound more than a little ignorant of the breadth and depth of talent in the world and more than a little inclined to believe that people can be boxed up and ring fenced by your particular world view. No sheep were harmed in the making of this robot. Sheep literally fell asleep when secured.

tom_ 3y ago

Try it and report back!

QuadmasterXLII 3y ago

Building as practiced by hardware engineers is not linear in number of unique components. Building as practiced by software engineers is, at a terrible price.

gerdesj 3y ago

I learned ForTran whilst studying Civ Eng. back in '89 - '91 . Notice the two digit year - you software lot gave us the Y2K snag 8) It seems rather silly these days when terabytes are trivially available but when every bit, byte and nybble costed rather a lot, it nearly made sense. If software techies/engineers wish to push back, may I suggest: Tay bridge, Tacoma Narrows, Millennium bridge and concrete cancer. Comet commercial jet airliners and the many snags that lead to fillets and rounded corners on ships int al. Do we count Titanic as "user error" or inappropriate expectations exceeded?