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I thought a lot of them don't even know they are running scams, and that is all coming down from the top. They are barely paid phone workers just doing scripts

I thought a lot of them don't even know they are running scams, and that is all coming down from the top. They are barely paid phone workers just doing scripts and doing what they are told just so they can feed their families.

packetslave 3y ago
"doing what they are told" is not an excuse if what you're being told to do is evil.
- SirMaster 3y ago
  If they aren't smart enough to know better though. I guess it's their fault for not being smarter, but how can you say they are evil people if they don't know that what they are doing is wrong? I've watched some of these scammer videos and there are people working for tech support scams who think they are actually helping customers when in reality they are actually selling fake products and services for their employer, but they don't know or understand that they are fake.
reidjs 3y ago
That is the sad reality of this. Most the scammers would probably prefer to work a legitimate job, but circumstances have forced them into this. I don’t think most of them willingly choose to rip off people, but given the choice between stealing from a stranger, painlessly, or having their children starve, we’d all make the same choice. That doesn’t make it OK, but that is probably how they justify stealing other people’s money.
- 29athrowaway 3y ago
  They are forced to become criminals and scam old people. Yeah sure.
jstarfish 3y ago
Don't bring white guilt into this. Desperation doesn't excuse depravity, nor should it. On the other end of the phone call are people being forced into the same position of desperation through deception. That's their reward for a lifetime of presumably-honest work. The noble savages aren't that dumb either. These aren't credit default swaps so abstracted from the underlying assets that the product's toxicity is unrecognizable at the nth degree. They're directly manipulating people into draining their accounts. At some level, something about it should feel off.
- 29athrowaway 3y ago
  White guilt? noble savages? What are you talking about? Expressing your thoughts through racial stereotypes makes you look with a person with poor judgment and no common sense.
- guhcampos 3y ago
  I have very similar morals to you, although I'm white and privileged like most of us. Yet I could definitely convince myself to "make these rich biggots pay" for my family ends meet, especially if I lived in some shithole without much hope for improvement. Heck, privileged people have been convinced of worse. It's not "white guilt", it's perspective.
29athrowaway 3y ago
It is crime. And many of those scammers make a lot of money, they operate under commisions and bonuses, according to videos from hackers that break into their systems and steal their data.
singleshot_ 3y ago
That’s correct. Their employers should be held liable, squeezed for every last nickel, and forced to shut down permanently. That the employees chose their criminal employment unwisely or unwittingly is regrettable.
burnerburnson 3y ago
Only on HackerNews could I find some idiot trying to drum up sympathy for phone scammers.
- 29athrowaway 3y ago
  A 20 year old failed social engineer scamming a 80 year old retired American veteran requires all our empathy.

packetslave 3y ago

"doing what they are told" is not an excuse if what you're being told to do is evil.

SirMaster 3y ago
If they aren't smart enough to know better though. I guess it's their fault for not being smarter, but how can you say they are evil people if they don't know that what they are doing is wrong? I've watched some of these scammer videos and there are people working for tech support scams who think they are actually helping customers when in reality they are actually selling fake products and services for their employer, but they don't know or understand that they are fake.

reidjs 3y ago

That is the sad reality of this. Most the scammers would probably prefer to work a legitimate job, but circumstances have forced them into this. I don’t think most of them willingly choose to rip off people, but given the choice between stealing from a stranger, painlessly, or having their children starve, we’d all make the same choice. That doesn’t make it OK, but that is probably how they justify stealing other people’s money.

29athrowaway 3y ago
They are forced to become criminals and scam old people. Yeah sure.

jstarfish 3y ago

Don't bring white guilt into this. Desperation doesn't excuse depravity, nor should it. On the other end of the phone call are people being forced into the same position of desperation through deception. That's their reward for a lifetime of presumably-honest work. The noble savages aren't that dumb either. These aren't credit default swaps so abstracted from the underlying assets that the product's toxicity is unrecognizable at the nth degree. They're directly manipulating people into draining their accounts. At some level, something about it should feel off.

29athrowaway 3y ago
White guilt? noble savages? What are you talking about? Expressing your thoughts through racial stereotypes makes you look with a person with poor judgment and no common sense.
guhcampos 3y ago
I have very similar morals to you, although I'm white and privileged like most of us. Yet I could definitely convince myself to "make these rich biggots pay" for my family ends meet, especially if I lived in some shithole without much hope for improvement. Heck, privileged people have been convinced of worse. It's not "white guilt", it's perspective.

29athrowaway 3y ago

It is crime. And many of those scammers make a lot of money, they operate under commisions and bonuses, according to videos from hackers that break into their systems and steal their data.

singleshot_ 3y ago

That’s correct. Their employers should be held liable, squeezed for every last nickel, and forced to shut down permanently. That the employees chose their criminal employment unwisely or unwittingly is regrettable.

burnerburnson 3y ago

Only on HackerNews could I find some idiot trying to drum up sympathy for phone scammers.

29athrowaway 3y ago
A 20 year old failed social engineer scamming a 80 year old retired American veteran requires all our empathy.