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I don't understand why "universal binaries" exist at all on iOS. On desktops where the app space is more "free" it has a purpose, but it's not like users are re

I don't understand why "universal binaries" exist at all on iOS. On desktops where the app space is more "free" it has a purpose, but it's not like users are regularly moving apps from one iDevice to another -- so what on earth is the point of having three different things altogether? The much more intelligent solution would have been to simply allow developers to upload 3 different binaries, but only present it as one on the app store. Then the app store correctly downloads the correct one depending on your device (iTunes can keep all three if it wants or whatever), and then there is no need for the app store to muck around in your app internals or anything.

stephengillie 15y ago
How many developers are willing to create and upload 3 different versions of their app? I seem to remember reading a thread here on HN complaining about that... Would Apple allow an app maker to release their app for only newer iPads and iPhones, and not for the older devices? (I have no idea...)
- tolmasky 15y ago
  It would require no extra work on the developer's part. The 4 binaries could just be bundled in a "super" bundle and still even look like one thing and keep the ".app" extension. So we could actually keep everything as it is (code and resource wise), then when you hit compile, it simply makes 4 copies: 1 for iPhone (non-retina) which includes the .xibs for iPhone and non-HD images, one for iPhone HD (same but with HD images), one for iPad (blah blah) and one for iPad HD. It then shoves those into MyApp.app. That gets uploaded to iTunes as normal, but then only MyApp.app/Real-iPhone-HD.app gets actually downloaded to your phone for when you buy it. What I'm asking for isn't crazy: You can kind of do this today by shipping a separate iPad and iPhone app (you can't separate non-HD and HD). The main thing I'm asking for is for the App Store to recognize that they are the same thing without forcing me physically combine them.
  - masklinn 15y ago
    > You can kind of do this today by shipping a separate iPad and iPhone app (you can't separate non-HD and HD) And it's bloody inconvenient for the user who has to buy and keep half a dozen identical applications.
    - tolmasky 15y ago
      Right that's the whole point of my post. I'm saying its technically possible to separate them - Apple should then do the presentation work of showing them as the same on the store and pretending they're one app.
      - olalonde 15y ago
        I never owned an iDevice so I'm not sure the analogy stands but I believe the Ubuntu Software Center does something similar to what you're describing. You get the same 'app store' whatever version of Ubuntu you are running but when you install an 'app' it silently downloads the package targeted at your Ubuntu version.
        keeperofdakeys 15y ago
        Google Play supports this, which is mainly used for tablet vs phone, but could be used for different ARM architectures.. http://developer.android.com/guide/market/publishing/multiple-apks.html http://developer.android.com/guide/market/publishing/multipl...
        vidarh 15y ago
        There's an increasing number of MIPS based Android devices out these days, so hopefully they can handle that too...
        olalonde 15y ago
        I thought all Android apps ran in a Dalvik VM. What do you mean by "could be used for different ARM architectures"? Isn't Java bytecode independent of the underlying architecture?
- statictype 15y ago
  Apple has historically not given the slightest fuck about what is an inconvenience for developers. Even more so when what's good for users is the opposite of what's convenient for developers. And in this case (if they ever do decide to enforce multiple binaries) that would be a good thing.
hrktb 15y ago
I see your point, but users don't need to be moving apps from one device to the other. They just need to DL it on one and have it delivered to others, which is standard icloud procedure now. It's the same for backups, especially for apps that you want a copy nevermind what happens down the way (the app is deleted, the news version is crap, you can't connect to the store etc). As a matter of price, for the reasons above I am OK to pay more for an universal app than have two different ones I'll have to manage separately.
- tomflack 15y ago
  You totally missed his point. He's not saying the experience should present to the user as anything but what it does now - but behind the scenes there isn't any reason for the universal binary to exist. The phone or tablet should just download the binary it needs.
  - hrktb 15y ago
    I talked about backup and multi distribution of the same app to different devices in one batch. Isn't that enough "behind the scenes" related? I understand he wants the better of both worlds, a light download for each device and still full compatibility with each. But just thinking about it 30 sec and there are plenty of cases where the magic breaks and you find yourself in a corner with only one version when you need the other. You can say "throw the edge cases away", but it' unrealistic to think that you can keep the same usability in everycases while heavily cutting on the data you transmit to your users. Let's be honest about the compromises.
    - tomflack 15y ago
      > But just thinking about it 30 sec and there are plenty of cases where the magic breaks and you find yourself in a corner with only one version when you need the other. Name a single one an end-user would encounter. They wouldn't.

stephengillie 15y ago

How many developers are willing to create and upload 3 different versions of their app? I seem to remember reading a thread here on HN complaining about that... Would Apple allow an app maker to release their app for only newer iPads and iPhones, and not for the older devices? (I have no idea...)

tolmasky 15y ago
It would require no extra work on the developer's part. The 4 binaries could just be bundled in a "super" bundle and still even look like one thing and keep the ".app" extension. So we could actually keep everything as it is (code and resource wise), then when you hit compile, it simply makes 4 copies: 1 for iPhone (non-retina) which includes the .xibs for iPhone and non-HD images, one for iPhone HD (same but with HD images), one for iPad (blah blah) and one for iPad HD. It then shoves those into MyApp.app. That gets uploaded to iTunes as normal, but then only MyApp.app/Real-iPhone-HD.app gets actually downloaded to your phone for when you buy it. What I'm asking for isn't crazy: You can kind of do this today by shipping a separate iPad and iPhone app (you can't separate non-HD and HD). The main thing I'm asking for is for the App Store to recognize that they are the same thing without forcing me physically combine them.
- masklinn 15y ago
  > You can kind of do this today by shipping a separate iPad and iPhone app (you can't separate non-HD and HD) And it's bloody inconvenient for the user who has to buy and keep half a dozen identical applications.
  - tolmasky 15y ago
    Right that's the whole point of my post. I'm saying its technically possible to separate them - Apple should then do the presentation work of showing them as the same on the store and pretending they're one app.
    - olalonde 15y ago
      I never owned an iDevice so I'm not sure the analogy stands but I believe the Ubuntu Software Center does something similar to what you're describing. You get the same 'app store' whatever version of Ubuntu you are running but when you install an 'app' it silently downloads the package targeted at your Ubuntu version.
      - keeperofdakeys 15y ago
        Google Play supports this, which is mainly used for tablet vs phone, but could be used for different ARM architectures.. http://developer.android.com/guide/market/publishing/multiple-apks.html http://developer.android.com/guide/market/publishing/multipl...
        vidarh 15y ago
        There's an increasing number of MIPS based Android devices out these days, so hopefully they can handle that too...
        olalonde 15y ago
        I thought all Android apps ran in a Dalvik VM. What do you mean by "could be used for different ARM architectures"? Isn't Java bytecode independent of the underlying architecture?
statictype 15y ago
Apple has historically not given the slightest fuck about what is an inconvenience for developers. Even more so when what's good for users is the opposite of what's convenient for developers. And in this case (if they ever do decide to enforce multiple binaries) that would be a good thing.

hrktb 15y ago

I see your point, but users don't need to be moving apps from one device to the other. They just need to DL it on one and have it delivered to others, which is standard icloud procedure now. It's the same for backups, especially for apps that you want a copy nevermind what happens down the way (the app is deleted, the news version is crap, you can't connect to the store etc). As a matter of price, for the reasons above I am OK to pay more for an universal app than have two different ones I'll have to manage separately.

tomflack 15y ago
You totally missed his point. He's not saying the experience should present to the user as anything but what it does now - but behind the scenes there isn't any reason for the universal binary to exist. The phone or tablet should just download the binary it needs.
- hrktb 15y ago
  I talked about backup and multi distribution of the same app to different devices in one batch. Isn't that enough "behind the scenes" related? I understand he wants the better of both worlds, a light download for each device and still full compatibility with each. But just thinking about it 30 sec and there are plenty of cases where the magic breaks and you find yourself in a corner with only one version when you need the other. You can say "throw the edge cases away", but it' unrealistic to think that you can keep the same usability in everycases while heavily cutting on the data you transmit to your users. Let's be honest about the compromises.
  - tomflack 15y ago
    > But just thinking about it 30 sec and there are plenty of cases where the magic breaks and you find yourself in a corner with only one version when you need the other. Name a single one an end-user would encounter. They wouldn't.