4 ms·

Engineering tradeoffs to support something intel/amd PCs have supported for 15+ years? Maybe apple is just shit at engineering?

by wubrr 3y ago

shepherdjerred 3y ago
Intel/AMD chips don't approach the efficiency of what Apple makes.
- jamespo 3y ago
  I don't understand this pretence that the vast majority of the time laptops are plugged into the power anyway.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    There's always one reason after another. "It won't fit", you say sure it can, others do it, "Well, they don't do it efficiently", you say okay, how many times are you driving multiple monitors (most of which support power delivery these days) on battery, then it'll be "Apple just understands this better".
    - shepherdjerred 3y ago
      You're effectively saying that you want Apple to design a chip without any compromises in features, cost, performance, or efficiency. Apple sure could design a chip that drives more monitors, but maybe they decided that making the chip x% more performance/efficient, or having y feature was more important. Or, maybe this really truly is trivial and they decided to segment their chips by not including this feature. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
  - tcmart14 3y ago
    Perhaps because until recently, battery life has sucked? I used to plug in my laptops all the time. Now with the M1, it only gets plugged in to charge, then I don't plug it in until I charge it again. I have been enjoying sitting on my couch when I want to, to get work done rather than at my desk.
    - wubrr 3y ago
      You can sit on the couch and have your laptop plugged in. I also don't keep my lenovo plugged in all the time and don't notice any battery issues. Realistically you're not sitting on a couch, working for 6 hours straight either.
  - deergomoo 3y ago
    It’s not just battery life, it’s heat and noise too. Yeah I know not a lot of people actually use laptops on laps (though I do), but you typically can’t hide it under a desk like you can with a desktop. My job provided me with a Dell laptop with an i7 and it can keep my coffee warm just idling. Sometimes, when it’s decided it doesn’t want to sleep, I can hear the fans from the next room. While the screen is off, not being touched. I could go on at length about just how shitty the Dell is compared to my MacBook Air (despite costing more and performing worse!), but Apple Silicon Macs are just so much nicer when it comes to the practicalities of using a portal computer.
    - postalrat 3y ago
      So this conversion goes from Apple shouldn't need more display controllers since most people Air users don't use more displays to most people don't use their laptop on battery but power usage should be a major concern. It's almost like we should focus on what Apple does best and ignore what Apple does worse.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    True. But when I was going to customer sites, it was really nice to plug in my MacBook Pro the night before and not have to think about battery life. It’s also nice not to have the fans going constantly and being able to work with it on my lap without the fear of never being able to have little Scarface’s.
claytongulick 3y ago
Have you ever actually tried driving decent large monitors from those crappy intel chips? I have. Engineering tradeoffs indeed. For all its flaws, Apple focuses on making sure there is a good experience overall. In general, they'd rather have a more limited hardware ecosystem that works better than a broad ecosystem that's flaky. There are tradeoffs to both approaches. I go back and forth between windows and mac, and have for decades. I was a surfacebook/win10/WSL guy for a few years, and liked it a lot. Win 11? Not so much. Currently the M series chips blows any PC laptop away for the combination of portability/performance/battery. The Snapdragon X might change that in the next couple years, and I'll take a look at switching back then, and see what win 12 offers. If MS decides to take a step back from being an ad-serving platform and goes back to focusing on productivity, I may switch back. For now though, I'm planning on accepting the gut punch to my wallet and picking up a 14" M3 Max in a few weeks.
- wubrr 3y ago
  > Have you ever actually tried driving decent large monitors from those crappy intel chips? Yes, I regularly drive my monitors with 1 intel laptop and/or 1 amd laptop (modern ones, linux). Not a single issue ever. I plug in my work m2 pro mac to these same monitors - constant issues. > For all its flaws, Apple focuses on making sure there is a good experience overall. MacOS has had dozens of well-know, well-documented bugs for years that haven't been addressed, many of them mentioned in this thread. I don't see any focus from Apple on these whatsoever - their main focus seems to be advertising and visual design.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- d3w4s9 3y ago
  I have done dual external monitor setup for years on Intel and AMD laptops without any issues. The standard setup at my company is a ThinkPad connected to dual 27" monitor. My company has thousand of employees. (Mac setup is also available for those who requests.) Many many companies offer a similar setup for employees. Maybe you need a reality check first.

Engineering tradeoffs to support something intel/amd PCs have supported for 15+ years? Maybe apple is just shit at engineering?

by wubrr 3y ago

Engineering tradeoffs to support something intel/amd PCs have supported for 15+ years? Maybe apple is just shit at engineering?

shepherdjerred 3y ago

Intel/AMD chips don't approach the efficiency of what Apple makes.

jamespo 3y ago
I don't understand this pretence that the vast majority of the time laptops are plugged into the power anyway.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  There's always one reason after another. "It won't fit", you say sure it can, others do it, "Well, they don't do it efficiently", you say okay, how many times are you driving multiple monitors (most of which support power delivery these days) on battery, then it'll be "Apple just understands this better".
  - shepherdjerred 3y ago
    You're effectively saying that you want Apple to design a chip without any compromises in features, cost, performance, or efficiency. Apple sure could design a chip that drives more monitors, but maybe they decided that making the chip x% more performance/efficient, or having y feature was more important. Or, maybe this really truly is trivial and they decided to segment their chips by not including this feature. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
- tcmart14 3y ago
  Perhaps because until recently, battery life has sucked? I used to plug in my laptops all the time. Now with the M1, it only gets plugged in to charge, then I don't plug it in until I charge it again. I have been enjoying sitting on my couch when I want to, to get work done rather than at my desk.
  - wubrr 3y ago
    You can sit on the couch and have your laptop plugged in. I also don't keep my lenovo plugged in all the time and don't notice any battery issues. Realistically you're not sitting on a couch, working for 6 hours straight either.
- deergomoo 3y ago
  It’s not just battery life, it’s heat and noise too. Yeah I know not a lot of people actually use laptops on laps (though I do), but you typically can’t hide it under a desk like you can with a desktop. My job provided me with a Dell laptop with an i7 and it can keep my coffee warm just idling. Sometimes, when it’s decided it doesn’t want to sleep, I can hear the fans from the next room. While the screen is off, not being touched. I could go on at length about just how shitty the Dell is compared to my MacBook Air (despite costing more and performing worse!), but Apple Silicon Macs are just so much nicer when it comes to the practicalities of using a portal computer.
  - postalrat 3y ago
    So this conversion goes from Apple shouldn't need more display controllers since most people Air users don't use more displays to most people don't use their laptop on battery but power usage should be a major concern. It's almost like we should focus on what Apple does best and ignore what Apple does worse.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  True. But when I was going to customer sites, it was really nice to plug in my MacBook Pro the night before and not have to think about battery life. It’s also nice not to have the fans going constantly and being able to work with it on my lap without the fear of never being able to have little Scarface’s.

claytongulick 3y ago

Have you ever actually tried driving decent large monitors from those crappy intel chips? I have. Engineering tradeoffs indeed. For all its flaws, Apple focuses on making sure there is a good experience overall. In general, they'd rather have a more limited hardware ecosystem that works better than a broad ecosystem that's flaky. There are tradeoffs to both approaches. I go back and forth between windows and mac, and have for decades. I was a surfacebook/win10/WSL guy for a few years, and liked it a lot. Win 11? Not so much. Currently the M series chips blows any PC laptop away for the combination of portability/performance/battery. The Snapdragon X might change that in the next couple years, and I'll take a look at switching back then, and see what win 12 offers. If MS decides to take a step back from being an ad-serving platform and goes back to focusing on productivity, I may switch back. For now though, I'm planning on accepting the gut punch to my wallet and picking up a 14" M3 Max in a few weeks.

wubrr 3y ago
> Have you ever actually tried driving decent large monitors from those crappy intel chips? Yes, I regularly drive my monitors with 1 intel laptop and/or 1 amd laptop (modern ones, linux). Not a single issue ever. I plug in my work m2 pro mac to these same monitors - constant issues. > For all its flaws, Apple focuses on making sure there is a good experience overall. MacOS has had dozens of well-know, well-documented bugs for years that haven't been addressed, many of them mentioned in this thread. I don't see any focus from Apple on these whatsoever - their main focus seems to be advertising and visual design.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
d3w4s9 3y ago
I have done dual external monitor setup for years on Intel and AMD laptops without any issues. The standard setup at my company is a ThinkPad connected to dual 27" monitor. My company has thousand of employees. (Mac setup is also available for those who requests.) Many many companies offer a similar setup for employees. Maybe you need a reality check first.