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> You know, the ones that pop up in exposé articles every now and then where most of the money goes to marketing and admin Yeah, there are even ones that buy m

> You know, the ones that pop up in exposé articles every now and then where most of the money goes to marketing and admin Yeah, there are even ones that buy manor houses [0]. [0] Effectivealtruism.org purchased a £15M estate for its headquarters in 2021. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33903850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33903850

henryaj 3y ago
From https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/my-left-kidney https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/my-left-kidney - "conference venues kept ripping them off, having a nice venue of their own would be cheaper in the long run, and after looking at many options, the “castle” was the cheapest". You're anchoring on 'castle'. If it was a boring office building, no-one would care.
- nl 3y ago
  That quote you use was from a comment on that post, and the full context of that comment is arguing the complete opposite of what you are saying here: > You said: > "Obviously this kind of thing is why everyone hates effective altruists. People got so mad at some British EAs who used donor money to “buy a castle”. I read the Brits’ arguments: they’d been running lots of conferences with policy-makers, researchers, etc; those conferences have gone really well and produced some of the systemic change everyone keeps wanting. But conference venues kept ripping them off, having a nice venue of their own would be cheaper in the long run, and after looking at many options, the “castle” was the cheapest. Their math checked out, and I believe them when they say this was the most effective use for that money. " > I'm curious to see the math for Wytham Abbey. All I ever saw was Owen Cotton Barrett's response when this was brought up over on the forum. The actual cost benefit analysis for paying £15 million wasn't made clear. As one comment pointed out, the reasoning given for purchasing the castle "could have been made virtually verbatim had the cost been £1.5m or £150m." > You might have seen more information than me though. > Owen Cotton-Barretts comment -> https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/why-did-cea-buy-wytham-abbey?commentId=u3yJfbm2pes8TFpYX https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/... I think taking this statement ("we were getting ripped off") without any data goes exactly against the while idea of effective altruism.
  - henryaj 3y ago
    (A nit, but the quote was from the body of the post, not a comment on the post.) A decent subthread on this on the EA Forum: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/why-did-cea-buy-wytham-abbey?commentId=xa84YyhuAyh9u2ko5 https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/... The money came from a grant from OpenPhil for the purpose. EVF didn't publish a cost-benefit analysis my knowledge, but a back-of-the-envelope calculation [https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/why-did-cea-buy-wytham-abbey?commentId=3yeffQWcRFvmeteqc https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/...] suggests it would plausibly cost £1~2M a year to hire similar venues. That said, whether it's worth it to purchase a dedicated venue depends a lot on how much use the venue actually gets. Ultimately, "we were getting ripped off" is a financial judgement made by CEA. I don't think it really has a great deal to do with the wider effective altruist movement tbh.

henryaj 3y ago

From https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/my-left-kidney https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/my-left-kidney - "conference venues kept ripping them off, having a nice venue of their own would be cheaper in the long run, and after looking at many options, the “castle” was the cheapest". You're anchoring on 'castle'. If it was a boring office building, no-one would care.

nl 3y ago
That quote you use was from a comment on that post, and the full context of that comment is arguing the complete opposite of what you are saying here: > You said: > "Obviously this kind of thing is why everyone hates effective altruists. People got so mad at some British EAs who used donor money to “buy a castle”. I read the Brits’ arguments: they’d been running lots of conferences with policy-makers, researchers, etc; those conferences have gone really well and produced some of the systemic change everyone keeps wanting. But conference venues kept ripping them off, having a nice venue of their own would be cheaper in the long run, and after looking at many options, the “castle” was the cheapest. Their math checked out, and I believe them when they say this was the most effective use for that money. " > I'm curious to see the math for Wytham Abbey. All I ever saw was Owen Cotton Barrett's response when this was brought up over on the forum. The actual cost benefit analysis for paying £15 million wasn't made clear. As one comment pointed out, the reasoning given for purchasing the castle "could have been made virtually verbatim had the cost been £1.5m or £150m." > You might have seen more information than me though. > Owen Cotton-Barretts comment -> https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/why-did-cea-buy-wytham-abbey?commentId=u3yJfbm2pes8TFpYX https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/... I think taking this statement ("we were getting ripped off") without any data goes exactly against the while idea of effective altruism.
- henryaj 3y ago
  (A nit, but the quote was from the body of the post, not a comment on the post.) A decent subthread on this on the EA Forum: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/why-did-cea-buy-wytham-abbey?commentId=xa84YyhuAyh9u2ko5 https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/... The money came from a grant from OpenPhil for the purpose. EVF didn't publish a cost-benefit analysis my knowledge, but a back-of-the-envelope calculation [https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/why-did-cea-buy-wytham-abbey?commentId=3yeffQWcRFvmeteqc https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/...] suggests it would plausibly cost £1~2M a year to hire similar venues. That said, whether it's worth it to purchase a dedicated venue depends a lot on how much use the venue actually gets. Ultimately, "we were getting ripped off" is a financial judgement made by CEA. I don't think it really has a great deal to do with the wider effective altruist movement tbh.