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Out of interest did you make the same arguments about Martin Shkreli (arrogant and unlikable child of immigrants who did a much smaller scale scam similar to SB

by kawhah 3y ago

Out of interest did you make the same arguments about Martin Shkreli (arrogant and unlikable child of immigrants who did a much smaller scale scam similar to SBFs but where everyone was eventually repaid in full) and about Andrew Auernheimer (annoying and racist child of a working class single mother who performed a fairly successful hack without any personal gain) and about Brian Salcedo (working class, non-college-educated guy from the Midwest who carried out a fairly basic hack of a corporation attempting to profit financially but with no realistic chance of success)? Just asking, because all three of those guys did several years of federal time. I somewhat agree with what you say about prison, but I'm not sure we should start with the charismatic and media-savvy child of politically connected Stanford professors, who had plenty of opportunities to do well and live a full life without stealing anything or cheating anyone.

omginternets 3y ago
Is it really off the table to do both? Note: I'm not convinced prison should be off the table.
solomonb 3y ago
Or any of the countless lower income offenders who end up with years of jail time for crimes of desperation? If were going to make a radical policy change in sentencing then it has to be done for everyone all at once.
P_I_Staker 3y ago
There needs to be a real cultural shift here, and spaces like HN are doing a really bad job. The moderation heavily favors this privileged SV mindset, and criticism, results in extra scrutiny.
FireBeyond 3y ago
> Out of interest did you make the same arguments about Martin Shkreli (arrogant and unlikable child of immigrants who did a much smaller scale scam similar to SBFs but where everyone was eventually repaid in full) There is more to Shkreli and his sociopathic capitalism. Shkreli showing his real stripes: A drug comes before the FDA for approval, and it is opened up for comment. Shkreli lodges an objection to approval of this drug. Why? Because it's unsafe? No, trials thus far have shown it to be safer than existing drugs. Why? Because it's less effective? No, it's also been shown to be more effective than existing drugs? Perhaps it's more expensive? No, cost of R&D and production, and estimated retail costs are expected to be lower than existing drugs. Huh, odd. So why did Shkreli oppose this drug getting to the market? Because he and his company had just bought the patent to one of those 'existing drugs' recently, and this drug coming to market would torpedo demand for his drug, and torpedo the profitability of his investment in buying the patent. Man of the people, fighting for healthcare rights, Martin Shkreli.
rabite 3y ago
Andrew Auernheimer here. Though I was unjustly convicted under false pretenses by federal prosecutors willing to lie and misrepresent the law and my rights were deeply violated, having been to prison in the process I found it filled with quite a large number of people who absolutely should be there. One drug dealer, for example, laughed about forcing a desperate woman to fuck his dog for dope. There were also a pair of twins that tried to acquire a toddler for use as a sex slave. There were also some people that shouldn't have been there, perhaps not put in prison on false charges like me, but taking years off their life was a basic injustice that did nothing to advance society and likely encouraged further criminality. All nice and stable societies have long-term incarceration. Japan has notoriously hard prisons, even worse than most federal facilities in the United States. If I could, I would change how the prisons worked and treated their prisoners. I would definitely segregate off some of the categories of prisoners from others, and we surely have enough facilities to do so. But without the ability to denaturalize people and permanently expel them to a prison colony, you are going to need large numbers of people in longterm confinement. I'd say society would be much better off if half the prisoners I met never walked free, and a quarter were never incarcerated in the first place. The US justice system has 3 major problems: it convicts too many people, lets the wrong people avoid prison, and has too many people given kid glove sentences who really should go down for a lot longer. Even having been falsely convicted and tortured by the United States, I am not so foolish as to believe in prison abolition.
- eiirv33 3y ago
  Agreed. I do think we would be better off if some people never walked free. Like you.
  - rabite 3y ago
    I am fully aware that the Western world is full of people that think that those that disagree with them should be locked up for their opinions. Thankfully you haven't completely taken over the courts yet, but you are surely getting close. Be careful what you wish for, generally going around throwing your political enemies in prisons has frequently had longterm consequences for the safety of the people doing so and the people that support it.

by kawhah 3y ago

omginternets 3y ago

Is it really off the table to do both? Note: I'm not convinced prison should be off the table.

solomonb 3y ago

Or any of the countless lower income offenders who end up with years of jail time for crimes of desperation? If were going to make a radical policy change in sentencing then it has to be done for everyone all at once.

P_I_Staker 3y ago

There needs to be a real cultural shift here, and spaces like HN are doing a really bad job. The moderation heavily favors this privileged SV mindset, and criticism, results in extra scrutiny.

FireBeyond 3y ago

> Out of interest did you make the same arguments about Martin Shkreli (arrogant and unlikable child of immigrants who did a much smaller scale scam similar to SBFs but where everyone was eventually repaid in full) There is more to Shkreli and his sociopathic capitalism. Shkreli showing his real stripes: A drug comes before the FDA for approval, and it is opened up for comment. Shkreli lodges an objection to approval of this drug. Why? Because it's unsafe? No, trials thus far have shown it to be safer than existing drugs. Why? Because it's less effective? No, it's also been shown to be more effective than existing drugs? Perhaps it's more expensive? No, cost of R&D and production, and estimated retail costs are expected to be lower than existing drugs. Huh, odd. So why did Shkreli oppose this drug getting to the market? Because he and his company had just bought the patent to one of those 'existing drugs' recently, and this drug coming to market would torpedo demand for his drug, and torpedo the profitability of his investment in buying the patent. Man of the people, fighting for healthcare rights, Martin Shkreli.

rabite 3y ago

Andrew Auernheimer here. Though I was unjustly convicted under false pretenses by federal prosecutors willing to lie and misrepresent the law and my rights were deeply violated, having been to prison in the process I found it filled with quite a large number of people who absolutely should be there. One drug dealer, for example, laughed about forcing a desperate woman to fuck his dog for dope. There were also a pair of twins that tried to acquire a toddler for use as a sex slave. There were also some people that shouldn't have been there, perhaps not put in prison on false charges like me, but taking years off their life was a basic injustice that did nothing to advance society and likely encouraged further criminality. All nice and stable societies have long-term incarceration. Japan has notoriously hard prisons, even worse than most federal facilities in the United States. If I could, I would change how the prisons worked and treated their prisoners. I would definitely segregate off some of the categories of prisoners from others, and we surely have enough facilities to do so. But without the ability to denaturalize people and permanently expel them to a prison colony, you are going to need large numbers of people in longterm confinement. I'd say society would be much better off if half the prisoners I met never walked free, and a quarter were never incarcerated in the first place. The US justice system has 3 major problems: it convicts too many people, lets the wrong people avoid prison, and has too many people given kid glove sentences who really should go down for a lot longer. Even having been falsely convicted and tortured by the United States, I am not so foolish as to believe in prison abolition.

eiirv33 3y ago
Agreed. I do think we would be better off if some people never walked free. Like you.
- rabite 3y ago
  I am fully aware that the Western world is full of people that think that those that disagree with them should be locked up for their opinions. Thankfully you haven't completely taken over the courts yet, but you are surely getting close. Be careful what you wish for, generally going around throwing your political enemies in prisons has frequently had longterm consequences for the safety of the people doing so and the people that support it.