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I think there's a strand of EA that goes hardcore utilitarian, because utilitarianism is the only thing that is both logical and universally fair. And that spec

by jprete 3y ago

I think there's a strand of EA that goes hardcore utilitarian, because utilitarianism is the only thing that is both logical and universally fair. And that specific strand of EA is IMO very very vulnerable to ends-justify-means kind of thinking. SBF doesn't even have to be a fake EAer to have done what he did. He just has to be a hard-utilitarian EAer who thinks there's a way to rob the world and repurpose the money to the most likely path to infinite utility.

metalcrow 3y ago
Agreed, utilitarianism definitely causes people to suffer from "i am smarter than everyone else"-itis (and i say that as a hardcore utilitarian). The good news from this is that hopefully this make other utilitarians enter the odds of failure, and that they are less likely to succeeded then they think, into their calculus. The only difference between a utilitarian that creates a positive impact (Bill Gates for example, even though i don't think he's utilitarian) and SBF is that SBF was overconfident and suffered from delusions of grandeur.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  Possibly Bill Gates' focus on solving a massive problem, without utilitarian whataboutism, is what makes him genuinely effective.
  - metalcrow 3y ago
    The utilitarianism "whataboutism" is what allows most people to see and be motivated to solve (real) massive problems. Most people don't care about solving world hunger, it's only if you really understand the depth and suffering of that problem do you know how badly it has to be solved. You either get lucky enough to have your emotions line up with it, or you figure it out via utility. Plus, emotions can lead you into solving fake massive problems just as easily as real. Mormons are certainly highly motivated into solving the problems of a lack of God in our society.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      > You either get lucky enough to have your emotions line up with it, or you figure it out via utility Emotions are what enable us to decide what is the most utility. It's accounting, not finance.

by jprete 3y ago

metalcrow 3y ago

Agreed, utilitarianism definitely causes people to suffer from "i am smarter than everyone else"-itis (and i say that as a hardcore utilitarian). The good news from this is that hopefully this make other utilitarians enter the odds of failure, and that they are less likely to succeeded then they think, into their calculus. The only difference between a utilitarian that creates a positive impact (Bill Gates for example, even though i don't think he's utilitarian) and SBF is that SBF was overconfident and suffered from delusions of grandeur.

robertlagrant 3y ago
Possibly Bill Gates' focus on solving a massive problem, without utilitarian whataboutism, is what makes him genuinely effective.
- metalcrow 3y ago
  The utilitarianism "whataboutism" is what allows most people to see and be motivated to solve (real) massive problems. Most people don't care about solving world hunger, it's only if you really understand the depth and suffering of that problem do you know how badly it has to be solved. You either get lucky enough to have your emotions line up with it, or you figure it out via utility. Plus, emotions can lead you into solving fake massive problems just as easily as real. Mormons are certainly highly motivated into solving the problems of a lack of God in our society.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    > You either get lucky enough to have your emotions line up with it, or you figure it out via utility Emotions are what enable us to decide what is the most utility. It's accounting, not finance.