4 ms·

Citation needed. From what i know, https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/my-left-kidney https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/my-left-kidney says "conference venues kept

Citation needed. From what i know, https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/my-left-kidney https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/my-left-kidney says "conference venues kept ripping them off, having a nice venue of their own would be cheaper in the long run, and after looking at many options, the “castle” was the cheapest". Zero mention of ambiance and improving thinking.

kawhah 3y ago
your attitude to citations seems strange. Scott Anderson simply says, as part of a rant against anti-EA people, that the EA people said that they bought a castle for the right reasons, and that he chooses to believe them.
aivisol 3y ago
As a side note, Astralcodexten blog by Scott Alexander is a fascinating read even if you are neither effective nor altruist.
timerol 3y ago
TFA quotes an "EA forum", and some Googling leads to https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/why-did-cea-buy-wytham-abbey?commentId=nyzTGDNwQfj67eKqC https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/...
kr0bat 3y ago
This might be the explanation astralcodexten was discussing [1]. Geoffrey Miller, a commenter, (I'm not involved in EA enough to know if that's a household name) says this I've been to about 70 conferences in my academic career, and I'm noticed that the aesthetics, antiquity, and uniqueness of the venue can have a significant effect on the seriousness with which people take ideas and conversations, and the creativity of their thinking. And, of course, it's much easier to attract great talent and busy thinkers to attractive venues. Moreover, I suspect that meeting in a building constructed in 1480 might help promote long-termism and multi-century thinking. Of course this man didn't buy the castle, so I don't think it's fair to hold a random commenter's thoughts against CEA. I'm not big on cognitive decoupling, but I also find buying a castle for a charity event venue shocking, and I don't think there were enough numbers in this post to soothe me. If renting event venues was too expensive, couldn't they have met virtually? [1] https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/why-did-cea-buy-wytham-abbey https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/...
- metalcrow 3y ago
  Thank you for finding the original source, that's legitimately very helpful! I think this message can stand for itself much more then the parent can. You can argue with it and disagree, but at least the disagreement is more reasonable then they did it only for the ambiance. Although it doesn't seem to mention the issue with being unable to find other conference centers, so that reason may still be valid or might be a mistake on Scott's part.
- cma 3y ago
  I suspect the real explanation has way more to do with Yudkowski's Harry Potter fanfiction and seeing the rest of the world as "Muggles" than they would be comfortable explaining.
mcpackieh 3y ago
It's right here: "having a nice venue" Why do they need a "nice venue"? Why wouldn't any airport hotel's conference room be sufficient? They wanted something nice, more than utilitarian. They wanted luxury, and how does an "effective altruist" defend that? Because luxury makes them "more effective" of course.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  I follow a business rule of thumb that relates to this. The "chandelier rule": the bigger the chandelier in the room, the worse the deal being pitched to you is. If someone is spending lavishly on pitching to me[1], I start to really question the deal. At best, they're showing me that they don't mind wasting money on things that don't matter. If you want to impress me, wine and dine me by taking me to McDonald's. [1] I have been picked up in expensive sports cars, I have been taken out to eye-wateringly expensive restaurants, etc. This is the sort of thing that raises big red flags to me.
jrumbut 3y ago
Regardless of why they bought the castle, or whether it would be more accurate to call it a manorial estate, it's a long way from a simple website that sends out mosquito nets and deworming tablets.
- cma 3y ago
  > Regardless of why they bought the castle Two separate castles: https://twitter.com/paulmainwood/status/1600433194691502081 https://twitter.com/paulmainwood/status/1600433194691502081 https://www.chateau-hostacov.cz/en/contact https://www.chateau-hostacov.cz/en/contact They really ran with the exact opposite of Peter Singer's sacrifice your fancy boots to save a child parable. And Effective Altruist Sam Bankman-Fried, who drove a Prius for optics, lived in what has been cited as potentially the most expensive private residence in the Bahamas. He was grilled on it a bit before the collapse and explained that worrying about what he did with 1% of his money wasn't justifiable use of time in the big picture--still dubious given the Singer origins of the movement)--but a bigger problem was close to 100% of the money was fictional: illiquid self-issued token valuation, and double spending/self-loaning of customer funds. Just like other charities that spend nearly more of the money on fundraising and growth that were the main target of criticism of the movement, they did pretty much the same, while pitching it as a more effective alternative to Oxfam, etc.
  - henryaj 3y ago
    The second one seems to be a link to a hotel. Where's the source for the claim that it was bought by EAs?
    - cma 3y ago
      https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/pbe8x4AQDqftQoaT5/espr-should-return-the-ftx-funded-chateau https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/pbe8x4AQDqftQoaT5/...

kawhah 3y ago

your attitude to citations seems strange. Scott Anderson simply says, as part of a rant against anti-EA people, that the EA people said that they bought a castle for the right reasons, and that he chooses to believe them.

aivisol 3y ago

As a side note, Astralcodexten blog by Scott Alexander is a fascinating read even if you are neither effective nor altruist.

timerol 3y ago

TFA quotes an "EA forum", and some Googling leads to https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/why-did-cea-buy-wytham-abbey?commentId=nyzTGDNwQfj67eKqC https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/...

kr0bat 3y ago

This might be the explanation astralcodexten was discussing [1]. Geoffrey Miller, a commenter, (I'm not involved in EA enough to know if that's a household name) says this I've been to about 70 conferences in my academic career, and I'm noticed that the aesthetics, antiquity, and uniqueness of the venue can have a significant effect on the seriousness with which people take ideas and conversations, and the creativity of their thinking. And, of course, it's much easier to attract great talent and busy thinkers to attractive venues. Moreover, I suspect that meeting in a building constructed in 1480 might help promote long-termism and multi-century thinking. Of course this man didn't buy the castle, so I don't think it's fair to hold a random commenter's thoughts against CEA. I'm not big on cognitive decoupling, but I also find buying a castle for a charity event venue shocking, and I don't think there were enough numbers in this post to soothe me. If renting event venues was too expensive, couldn't they have met virtually? [1] https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/why-did-cea-buy-wytham-abbey https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/xof7iFB3uh8Kc53bG/...

metalcrow 3y ago
Thank you for finding the original source, that's legitimately very helpful! I think this message can stand for itself much more then the parent can. You can argue with it and disagree, but at least the disagreement is more reasonable then they did it only for the ambiance. Although it doesn't seem to mention the issue with being unable to find other conference centers, so that reason may still be valid or might be a mistake on Scott's part.
cma 3y ago
I suspect the real explanation has way more to do with Yudkowski's Harry Potter fanfiction and seeing the rest of the world as "Muggles" than they would be comfortable explaining.

mcpackieh 3y ago

It's right here: "having a nice venue" Why do they need a "nice venue"? Why wouldn't any airport hotel's conference room be sufficient? They wanted something nice, more than utilitarian. They wanted luxury, and how does an "effective altruist" defend that? Because luxury makes them "more effective" of course.

JohnFen 3y ago
I follow a business rule of thumb that relates to this. The "chandelier rule": the bigger the chandelier in the room, the worse the deal being pitched to you is. If someone is spending lavishly on pitching to me[1], I start to really question the deal. At best, they're showing me that they don't mind wasting money on things that don't matter. If you want to impress me, wine and dine me by taking me to McDonald's. [1] I have been picked up in expensive sports cars, I have been taken out to eye-wateringly expensive restaurants, etc. This is the sort of thing that raises big red flags to me.

jrumbut 3y ago

Regardless of why they bought the castle, or whether it would be more accurate to call it a manorial estate, it's a long way from a simple website that sends out mosquito nets and deworming tablets.

cma 3y ago
> Regardless of why they bought the castle Two separate castles: https://twitter.com/paulmainwood/status/1600433194691502081 https://twitter.com/paulmainwood/status/1600433194691502081 https://www.chateau-hostacov.cz/en/contact https://www.chateau-hostacov.cz/en/contact They really ran with the exact opposite of Peter Singer's sacrifice your fancy boots to save a child parable. And Effective Altruist Sam Bankman-Fried, who drove a Prius for optics, lived in what has been cited as potentially the most expensive private residence in the Bahamas. He was grilled on it a bit before the collapse and explained that worrying about what he did with 1% of his money wasn't justifiable use of time in the big picture--still dubious given the Singer origins of the movement)--but a bigger problem was close to 100% of the money was fictional: illiquid self-issued token valuation, and double spending/self-loaning of customer funds. Just like other charities that spend nearly more of the money on fundraising and growth that were the main target of criticism of the movement, they did pretty much the same, while pitching it as a more effective alternative to Oxfam, etc.
- henryaj 3y ago
  The second one seems to be a link to a hotel. Where's the source for the claim that it was bought by EAs?
  - cma 3y ago
    https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/pbe8x4AQDqftQoaT5/espr-should-return-the-ftx-funded-chateau https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/pbe8x4AQDqftQoaT5/...