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I don't disagree, but from the consumer point of view I don't think it really matters unless repairs are much cheaper—which the Hertz thing, though admittedly j

I don't disagree, but from the consumer point of view I don't think it really matters unless repairs are much cheaper—which the Hertz thing, though admittedly just one data point from a company trying to justify a big move, contradicts. It just illustrates how EVs are in fact cars, and aren't magically free from most of the same old reliability issues drivers already deal with. BEV evangelists commonly steer reliability comparisons toward the drivetrain, since it in theory ought to be more reliable (at the very least it will have fewer moving parts), but I don't think my earlier comment was in an explicitly drivetrain-specific context. As you say, there are many other facets of vehicle reliability that matter. It's also worth mentioning that modern ICEs seem to be exceptionally reliable even with the bare minimum maintenance, which makes sense given the maturity of the technologies involved. Transmissions maybe not so much, but the obvious answer to that IMO is hybrid drive systems—series hybrids, simple planetary gear systems, etc. Everything on the road today ought to be a hybrid, since they're arguably the most impactful way to distribute our limited battery production capacity. A standard hybrid battery is something like 1/100 the capacity of a BEV battery.

vel0city 3y ago
Ok, but still then these links don't mean too much either way with these other ideas. If a Tesla bumper replacement is expensive compared to a Ford, that's not speaking to the repair costs of EVs that's the repair costs for Teslas. There's nothing inherently more expensive about an EV's headlights or whatever compared to a similar ICE. Is a Volkswagen EV generally more expensive to repair than a Volkswagen ICE? Do your links answer that kind of question? And you're talking to a person literally commenting from the auto shop after shelling out a couple hundred bucks in maintenance on a 2017 ICE, maintenance that I literally won't have to do on my EV. So kind of funny having someone suggest the EV is more expensive when it's going against my lived experience, right now.
- caconym_ 3y ago
  This comment thread was started by a person who claimed that "EVs have 20 moving parts and zero repairs". That is the context in which I posted these links, because it's total bullshit and said links trivially prove it. But—since you asked—just Googling around, recentish CR data^[1] (late '22) do seem to show that Tesla isn't a low outlier in terms of reliability, being joined in the lower echelons of EV reliability by such manufacturers as "Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Jeep, GMC and Chevrolet." All well-established manufacturers that seem to be having just as much trouble building reliable EVs as Tesla. All these data, though obviously incomplete, point strongly in a certain direction: that an EV powertrain is not a magic bullet for reliability or repair costs. Do you have any material reason to suspect that the obvious conclusion isn't the correct one? > And you're talking to a person literally commenting from the auto shop after shelling out a couple hundred bucks in maintenance on a 2017 ICE, maintenance that I literally won't have to do on my EV. So kind of funny having someone suggest the EV is more expensive when it's going against my lived experience, right now. Anecdotes like this are are just as irrelevant as the EV sob stories that constantly make the news, which is why I haven't posted any of the latter. But if we're doing that, did you catch that crazy story^[2] about the Tesla owner who was told their battery suffered "water ingress" after driving in the rain and that they'd have to shell out $20k for a new one just like that? What a bummer! --- ^[1] https://insideevs.com/news/622136/tesla-consumer-reports-reliability-2022/ https://insideevs.com/news/622136/tesla-consumer-reports-rel... ^[2] https://www.autoblog.com/2023/10/16/tesla-owners-heart-missed-a-beat-at-a-20000-estimate-to-fix-battery-damaged-by-rain/ https://www.autoblog.com/2023/10/16/tesla-owners-heart-misse...

vel0city 3y ago

Ok, but still then these links don't mean too much either way with these other ideas. If a Tesla bumper replacement is expensive compared to a Ford, that's not speaking to the repair costs of EVs that's the repair costs for Teslas. There's nothing inherently more expensive about an EV's headlights or whatever compared to a similar ICE. Is a Volkswagen EV generally more expensive to repair than a Volkswagen ICE? Do your links answer that kind of question? And you're talking to a person literally commenting from the auto shop after shelling out a couple hundred bucks in maintenance on a 2017 ICE, maintenance that I literally won't have to do on my EV. So kind of funny having someone suggest the EV is more expensive when it's going against my lived experience, right now.

caconym_ 3y ago
This comment thread was started by a person who claimed that "EVs have 20 moving parts and zero repairs". That is the context in which I posted these links, because it's total bullshit and said links trivially prove it. But—since you asked—just Googling around, recentish CR data^[1] (late '22) do seem to show that Tesla isn't a low outlier in terms of reliability, being joined in the lower echelons of EV reliability by such manufacturers as "Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Jeep, GMC and Chevrolet." All well-established manufacturers that seem to be having just as much trouble building reliable EVs as Tesla. All these data, though obviously incomplete, point strongly in a certain direction: that an EV powertrain is not a magic bullet for reliability or repair costs. Do you have any material reason to suspect that the obvious conclusion isn't the correct one? > And you're talking to a person literally commenting from the auto shop after shelling out a couple hundred bucks in maintenance on a 2017 ICE, maintenance that I literally won't have to do on my EV. So kind of funny having someone suggest the EV is more expensive when it's going against my lived experience, right now. Anecdotes like this are are just as irrelevant as the EV sob stories that constantly make the news, which is why I haven't posted any of the latter. But if we're doing that, did you catch that crazy story^[2] about the Tesla owner who was told their battery suffered "water ingress" after driving in the rain and that they'd have to shell out $20k for a new one just like that? What a bummer! --- ^[1] https://insideevs.com/news/622136/tesla-consumer-reports-reliability-2022/ https://insideevs.com/news/622136/tesla-consumer-reports-rel... ^[2] https://www.autoblog.com/2023/10/16/tesla-owners-heart-missed-a-beat-at-a-20000-estimate-to-fix-battery-damaged-by-rain/ https://www.autoblog.com/2023/10/16/tesla-owners-heart-misse...