5 ms·

Students ate less meat for 3 years after hearing talk on environmental impacts

25 points by setgree 3y ago

NotGMan 3y ago
I didn't read the actual study but based on this article it seems horribly flawed. The participants who were tracked were imo totaly biased towards this kind of "eat less meat" viewpoint, so to then be suprised that they ate less meat (knowing they would be tracked) totaly destroys any credibility.
- twilightzone 3y ago
  Yes, the bias created by being informed is exactly the point of the study.
- setgree 3y ago
  You're onto something important, but I'd offer a different interpretation. All 'effects' -- the sense of being watched, the activation of prior viewpoints -- are downstream of treatment. Theoretically, the kids who were randomly assigned to the control group had the same biases (in expectation), so all observed effects can be attributed to watching the documentary.
LtWorf 3y ago
I could find no specifics on the methodology. Is there a link?
- setgree 3y ago
  https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-023-00712-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-023-00712-1 3-year follow-up to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306919220301548 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03069...
huytersd 3y ago
Once I learned how bad meat farming was for the environment I started feeling slightly guilty about eating meat. Definitely didn’t reduce my consumption but I’m more open to a lab grown alternative when it’s available (none of that soybean stuff).
toomuchtodo 3y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/20/beef-usda-climate-crisis-meat-consumption https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/20/beef-usd... (Just 12% of people in the US account for half of all beef consumed in the US.) https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795 https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795 ("Demographic and Socioeconomic Correlates of Disproportionate Beef Consumption among US Adults in an Age of Global Warming") > Disproportionate beef diets were consumed by 12% of individuals, but accounted for half of all beef consumed. Males were more likely than females (p < 0.001) to consume these diets. This relationship was seen in all bivariate and multivariable models. Older adults, college graduates, and those who looked up the MyPlate educational campaign online were less likely (p < 0.01) to consume a disproportionate beef diet. While almost one-third of reported consumption came from cuts of beef (e.g., steak or brisket), six of the top ten beef sources were mixed dishes: burgers, meat mixed dishes, burritos and tacos, frankfurters, soups, and pasta. Efforts to address climate change through diet modification could benefit from targeting campaigns to the highest consumers of beef, as their consumption accounts for half of all beef consumed. Emphasis mine.
- wincy 3y ago
  Mmm now I want a steak. A properly cooked cowboy ribeye is truly the most delicious food around, and no amount of “education” and “outreach” will convince me otherwise.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Big fan of cultured meat (I have the occasional annual steak treat but am mostly vegetarian), but I wouldn't mind if someone at the intersection of skilled and obsessed performed a gene drive across the bovine population to prevent reproduction, sunsetting factory farming of that livestock. Existing herds retire out, and we move on to the next problem(s). You're just pulling the far future forward, depending on the trajectories you're looking at.
    - wincy 3y ago
      You sound literally insane. You realize that right? You sound like a genocidal megalomaniacal crazy person out of some scifi movie. You’re not Thanos, this opinion is crazy, and it’s not socially acceptable for you to espouse this opinion.
chabes 3y ago
I stopped eating meat over twenty years ago because of the negative impacts associated with feedlot based meat production that is so prevalent in the United States. I’ve continued down this path (vegan 16 years this month), not only because of the negatives, but also the positives. Turns out that my body thrives on an animal-free diet. I know now that most folks aren’t in the position to adopt such a drastic lifestyle change, but I know now that it is possible.
srackey 3y ago
Propaganda is effective on impressionable youth. More news at 11…
- chabes 3y ago
  You’ve been fed meat propaganda for much longer than environmental propaganda.
  - Detrytus 3y ago
    I like meat and I do not give a fuck about environment. Earth can burn, with all the people on it, for all I care.
    - networkchad 3y ago
      [dead]
  - wincy 3y ago
    It’s not propaganda, it’s objectively delicious and the best tasting (and hugely nutritious) food for people. My kid vastly prefers steak to ground beef or chicken.
- quantumsequoia 3y ago
  "Propaganda" to encourage people to make other types of healthy choices like eating healthier, eating more fruits/veggies, etc are not nearly as effective, even on impressionable youth
hombre_fatal 3y ago
And that's just after a talk about the environmental impact. Next they should watch a documentary like Earthlings or Dominion that challenge them on an ethical level.
- wincy 3y ago
  I made sure to teach my children how animals are slaughtered for food because I didn’t want them to get some big surprise when they were older. They love steak and chicken still. We’ve gone fishing and eaten the fish. I think it’s an important part of avoiding having children avoid the indoctrination of the anti meat lobby to go ahead and get all that out of the way.
  - hombre_fatal 3y ago
    The meat industry receives billions of dollars per year in the US from the government, so I don't think you can make the case that we're steeped in anything other than a pro-meat agenda that's so ubiquitous that you can't even film the inside of an animal feed lot. You're just serving your children the status quo indoctrination and patting yourself on the back. Maybe you can show them the data: https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets You keep bringing up how tasty meat is, but I don't see how that interacts with the concerns here since we don't use pleasure as a blank check to permit anything we might want to do in the world. It also might be a cooking skill issue on your part. I recommend this book: https://rainbowplantlife.com/cookbook/ https://rainbowplantlife.com/cookbook/ and her Youtube channel. I eat her tofu scramble daily.
  - qazwse_ 3y ago
    Why do you believe that the anti-meat lobby has more sway in society than the meat lobby?
Detrytus 3y ago
Every time I hear the talk about "environmental impacts" of something, I tend to use/do even more of that thing, just out of spite.

25 points by setgree 3y ago

I didn't read the actual study but based on this article it seems horribly flawed. The participants who were tracked were imo totaly biased towards this kind of "eat less meat" viewpoint, so to then be suprised that they ate less meat (knowing they would be tracked) totaly destroys any credibility.

twilightzone 3y ago
Yes, the bias created by being informed is exactly the point of the study.
setgree 3y ago
You're onto something important, but I'd offer a different interpretation. All 'effects' -- the sense of being watched, the activation of prior viewpoints -- are downstream of treatment. Theoretically, the kids who were randomly assigned to the control group had the same biases (in expectation), so all observed effects can be attributed to watching the documentary.

LtWorf 3y ago

I could find no specifics on the methodology. Is there a link?

setgree 3y ago
https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-023-00712-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-023-00712-1 3-year follow-up to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306919220301548 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03069...

huytersd 3y ago

Once I learned how bad meat farming was for the environment I started feeling slightly guilty about eating meat. Definitely didn’t reduce my consumption but I’m more open to a lab grown alternative when it’s available (none of that soybean stuff).

toomuchtodo 3y ago

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/20/beef-usda-climate-crisis-meat-consumption https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/20/beef-usd... (Just 12% of people in the US account for half of all beef consumed in the US.) https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795 https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795 ("Demographic and Socioeconomic Correlates of Disproportionate Beef Consumption among US Adults in an Age of Global Warming") > Disproportionate beef diets were consumed by 12% of individuals, but accounted for half of all beef consumed. Males were more likely than females (p < 0.001) to consume these diets. This relationship was seen in all bivariate and multivariable models. Older adults, college graduates, and those who looked up the MyPlate educational campaign online were less likely (p < 0.01) to consume a disproportionate beef diet. While almost one-third of reported consumption came from cuts of beef (e.g., steak or brisket), six of the top ten beef sources were mixed dishes: burgers, meat mixed dishes, burritos and tacos, frankfurters, soups, and pasta. Efforts to address climate change through diet modification could benefit from targeting campaigns to the highest consumers of beef, as their consumption accounts for half of all beef consumed. Emphasis mine.

wincy 3y ago
Mmm now I want a steak. A properly cooked cowboy ribeye is truly the most delicious food around, and no amount of “education” and “outreach” will convince me otherwise.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Big fan of cultured meat (I have the occasional annual steak treat but am mostly vegetarian), but I wouldn't mind if someone at the intersection of skilled and obsessed performed a gene drive across the bovine population to prevent reproduction, sunsetting factory farming of that livestock. Existing herds retire out, and we move on to the next problem(s). You're just pulling the far future forward, depending on the trajectories you're looking at.
  - wincy 3y ago
    You sound literally insane. You realize that right? You sound like a genocidal megalomaniacal crazy person out of some scifi movie. You’re not Thanos, this opinion is crazy, and it’s not socially acceptable for you to espouse this opinion.

chabes 3y ago

I stopped eating meat over twenty years ago because of the negative impacts associated with feedlot based meat production that is so prevalent in the United States. I’ve continued down this path (vegan 16 years this month), not only because of the negatives, but also the positives. Turns out that my body thrives on an animal-free diet. I know now that most folks aren’t in the position to adopt such a drastic lifestyle change, but I know now that it is possible.

srackey 3y ago

Propaganda is effective on impressionable youth. More news at 11…

chabes 3y ago
You’ve been fed meat propaganda for much longer than environmental propaganda.
- Detrytus 3y ago
  I like meat and I do not give a fuck about environment. Earth can burn, with all the people on it, for all I care.
  - networkchad 3y ago
    [dead]
- wincy 3y ago
  It’s not propaganda, it’s objectively delicious and the best tasting (and hugely nutritious) food for people. My kid vastly prefers steak to ground beef or chicken.
quantumsequoia 3y ago
"Propaganda" to encourage people to make other types of healthy choices like eating healthier, eating more fruits/veggies, etc are not nearly as effective, even on impressionable youth

hombre_fatal 3y ago

And that's just after a talk about the environmental impact. Next they should watch a documentary like Earthlings or Dominion that challenge them on an ethical level.

wincy 3y ago
I made sure to teach my children how animals are slaughtered for food because I didn’t want them to get some big surprise when they were older. They love steak and chicken still. We’ve gone fishing and eaten the fish. I think it’s an important part of avoiding having children avoid the indoctrination of the anti meat lobby to go ahead and get all that out of the way.
- hombre_fatal 3y ago
  The meat industry receives billions of dollars per year in the US from the government, so I don't think you can make the case that we're steeped in anything other than a pro-meat agenda that's so ubiquitous that you can't even film the inside of an animal feed lot. You're just serving your children the status quo indoctrination and patting yourself on the back. Maybe you can show them the data: https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets You keep bringing up how tasty meat is, but I don't see how that interacts with the concerns here since we don't use pleasure as a blank check to permit anything we might want to do in the world. It also might be a cooking skill issue on your part. I recommend this book: https://rainbowplantlife.com/cookbook/ https://rainbowplantlife.com/cookbook/ and her Youtube channel. I eat her tofu scramble daily.
- qazwse_ 3y ago
  Why do you believe that the anti-meat lobby has more sway in society than the meat lobby?

Detrytus 3y ago

Every time I hear the talk about "environmental impacts" of something, I tend to use/do even more of that thing, just out of spite.