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I read The Guardian article too [1], I just don't really get how it's justified by anything you've said. If Hamas attacks innocents for leaving and the IDF att

I read The Guardian article too [1], I just don't really get how it's justified by anything you've said. If Hamas attacks innocents for leaving and the IDF attacks them for staying, it's kind of a shitty thing to do then to just blow them up right? Considering Israel has for sure the upper hand, I don't see why they need to be so hasty to just blow the shit out of everything really? I'm not sure if you have Children but good luck just "fleeing south" with a family. Heavily pregnant wife and 2 kids for example. Experts on international humanitarian law said asking civilians to leave did not absolve Israel of the responsibility to protect those who chose to stay, when it was launching attacks. “Civilians that that cannot leave or do not leave are still civilians. And so the same rules apply,” said Helen Duffy, professor of international humanitarian law and human rights at Leiden University in the Netherlands. “You cannot target civilians. You cannot carry out indiscriminate attacks and you cannot carry out attacks that have disproportionate impact on civilians and civilian objects.” [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/01/jabalia-camp-airstrike-gaza https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/01/jabalia-camp-a...

philwelch 3y ago
The IDF isn’t attacking or targeting innocents and it’s not carrying out indiscriminate attacks. It’s targeting Hamas. Hamas has historically been able to use human shields to protect themselves (which is a war crime). It is a very shitty situation, which is why Israel spent the last 17 years following the exact policy you’re advocating, including refraining from airstrikes when Hamas had enough human shields in place. After October 7, that’s no longer a viable policy. Hamas needs to be removed from power, not just for the security of Israel but also for the good of the Palestinians in Gaza whom Hamas has been murdering and robbing for the past 17 years. Allowing Hamas to protect themselves by using the civilian population of Gaza as human shields only incentivizes that behavior and protects Hamas. Israel has “the upper hand” only because of the weapons that you’re demanding they don’t use. No urban battle in recent history—not Fallujah, not Mosul where ISIS was defeated—has ever taken place without airstrikes and civilian casualties. There is no way to win the battle for Gaza without any civilian casualties, and that’s a deplorable state of affairs, made worse by the actions of Hamas. Unfortunately, allowing Hamas to stay in power would be even worse. In February of 1945, the United States and United Kingdom engaged in a multi-day bombing raid of the city of Dresden, which was a major rail hub and industrial center. 25,000 German civilians died in the ensuing firestorm. This particular bombing raid has been a subject of controversy ever since, and there is some justification to that. The Nazis widely publicized falsified death tolls ten times as high, of course, and to this day you will find many a neo-Nazi who will endlessly concern troll you about Dresden while downplaying if not outright denying the Holocaust. Hamas runs the exact same playbook. Don’t let Jew-murdering savages convince you that they are the moral equals of those who are trying to put them down.

philwelch 3y ago

The IDF isn’t attacking or targeting innocents and it’s not carrying out indiscriminate attacks. It’s targeting Hamas. Hamas has historically been able to use human shields to protect themselves (which is a war crime). It is a very shitty situation, which is why Israel spent the last 17 years following the exact policy you’re advocating, including refraining from airstrikes when Hamas had enough human shields in place. After October 7, that’s no longer a viable policy. Hamas needs to be removed from power, not just for the security of Israel but also for the good of the Palestinians in Gaza whom Hamas has been murdering and robbing for the past 17 years. Allowing Hamas to protect themselves by using the civilian population of Gaza as human shields only incentivizes that behavior and protects Hamas. Israel has “the upper hand” only because of the weapons that you’re demanding they don’t use. No urban battle in recent history—not Fallujah, not Mosul where ISIS was defeated—has ever taken place without airstrikes and civilian casualties. There is no way to win the battle for Gaza without any civilian casualties, and that’s a deplorable state of affairs, made worse by the actions of Hamas. Unfortunately, allowing Hamas to stay in power would be even worse. In February of 1945, the United States and United Kingdom engaged in a multi-day bombing raid of the city of Dresden, which was a major rail hub and industrial center. 25,000 German civilians died in the ensuing firestorm. This particular bombing raid has been a subject of controversy ever since, and there is some justification to that. The Nazis widely publicized falsified death tolls ten times as high, of course, and to this day you will find many a neo-Nazi who will endlessly concern troll you about Dresden while downplaying if not outright denying the Holocaust. Hamas runs the exact same playbook. Don’t let Jew-murdering savages convince you that they are the moral equals of those who are trying to put them down.