6 ms·

It is extremely difficult to represent someone who thinks they did nothing wrong. I have a semi- high-profile case where the client honestly thinks he did nothi

It is extremely difficult to represent someone who thinks they did nothing wrong. I have a semi- high-profile case where the client honestly thinks he did nothing wrong. I tell him that doesn't matter; they can prove you did. You've provided nothing to make them question their judgment. Still he persists, "but I did nothing wrong." I've been sending him excerpts from the SBF prosecution to get him to wake up, but no luck.

bloomingeek 3y ago
I sympathize with you, When a person's moral compass gets so off, for whatever reason, it's kind of heart breaking. I once worked with a guy who decided to start taking testosterone because he didn't have the energy he once had. We were the same age and I told him it was part of the normal process of aging. I also told him T was a fad in most cases and cautioned him not to use it, even if it was under a doctor's care. Even though this wasn't necessarily a moral issue, it did almost cost him his job and marriage. He didn't get the energy he wanted, but he did get rage issues. I kept trying to point this out, but he just wouldn't listen. He never admitted he was wrong about using T, however he was forced to quit using it.
- grvdrm 3y ago
  > When a person's moral compass gets so off, for whatever reason, it's kind of heart breaking It feels quite classically narcissist to me. I work for one. I'm not saying that lack of moral compass and narcissist are identical traits, but there are similar issues. And as someone working for that sort of personality, I go through a simple reassurance process every day: have a lost sight of his true being (narccissist) or am I all the sudden calling him brilliant, drinking the cool-aid, saying I love him. Luckily, I'm firmly grounded that I know who/what I am getting when I speak with him but talk with folks all over the company that are on the other side. It's amazing to hear it. SBF was that CEO and unfortunately, in my view, most of his folks were in the kool-aid/love-you camp. To add to the parent post that had this: > It is extremely difficult to represent someone who thinks they did nothing wrong It's extremely difficult to work with someone who thinks they can do no wrong as well. I try hard NOT to be that person.
- VirusNewbie 3y ago
  This seems quite a weird take, are you an MD? Supplemental T in the normal range shouldn't make someone start hulking out to the point where it cost them their job and marriage, that would be extremely unusual, no?
  - bloomingeek 3y ago
    No, I'm not an MD, I'm just relating what actually happened. When he got off the T, he admitted that it did have a negative affect, but still felt it wasn't his fault. But then again, at work nothing ever was.
  - rjeli 3y ago
    correct, roid rage is a myth: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8855834/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8855834/ No differences were observed between exercising and nonexercising and between placebo and [600mg test-e] treated subjects for any of the 5 subdomains of [Multi-Dimensional Anger Inventory]
    - VirusNewbie 3y ago
      I wouldn't go so far to say roid rage is a myth, 600mg is not an outrageous amount, the hardcore bodybuilders and some athletes will do much more then that. It's certainly possible that 3x that dose induces unnatural rage.
    - MagicMoonlight 3y ago
      It’s not a myth, it absolutely does increase your anger and your drive. It also massively increases libido. That’s one of the reason that transgender treatment is so insidious. Give a depressed teen girl testosterone and they will always feel incredible. Regardless of whether it’s actually a medically necessary treatment, it’s a treatment that makes you feel good. Psych meds can’t compete.
- _yb2s 3y ago
  Testosterone doesn’t cause rage issues directly, that is usually caused by excessive estrogen, which can also itself cause fatigue. It sounds like he just needed to lower his dose or take a drug to block conversion to estrogen. It seems like his doctor didn’t know what they were doing, or that he was actually doing illegal steroids at home and not physician prescribed TRT? What does testosterone have to do with a moral compass?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

bloomingeek 3y ago

I sympathize with you, When a person's moral compass gets so off, for whatever reason, it's kind of heart breaking. I once worked with a guy who decided to start taking testosterone because he didn't have the energy he once had. We were the same age and I told him it was part of the normal process of aging. I also told him T was a fad in most cases and cautioned him not to use it, even if it was under a doctor's care. Even though this wasn't necessarily a moral issue, it did almost cost him his job and marriage. He didn't get the energy he wanted, but he did get rage issues. I kept trying to point this out, but he just wouldn't listen. He never admitted he was wrong about using T, however he was forced to quit using it.

grvdrm 3y ago
> When a person's moral compass gets so off, for whatever reason, it's kind of heart breaking It feels quite classically narcissist to me. I work for one. I'm not saying that lack of moral compass and narcissist are identical traits, but there are similar issues. And as someone working for that sort of personality, I go through a simple reassurance process every day: have a lost sight of his true being (narccissist) or am I all the sudden calling him brilliant, drinking the cool-aid, saying I love him. Luckily, I'm firmly grounded that I know who/what I am getting when I speak with him but talk with folks all over the company that are on the other side. It's amazing to hear it. SBF was that CEO and unfortunately, in my view, most of his folks were in the kool-aid/love-you camp. To add to the parent post that had this: > It is extremely difficult to represent someone who thinks they did nothing wrong It's extremely difficult to work with someone who thinks they can do no wrong as well. I try hard NOT to be that person.
VirusNewbie 3y ago
This seems quite a weird take, are you an MD? Supplemental T in the normal range shouldn't make someone start hulking out to the point where it cost them their job and marriage, that would be extremely unusual, no?
- bloomingeek 3y ago
  No, I'm not an MD, I'm just relating what actually happened. When he got off the T, he admitted that it did have a negative affect, but still felt it wasn't his fault. But then again, at work nothing ever was.
- rjeli 3y ago
  correct, roid rage is a myth: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8855834/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8855834/ No differences were observed between exercising and nonexercising and between placebo and [600mg test-e] treated subjects for any of the 5 subdomains of [Multi-Dimensional Anger Inventory]
  - VirusNewbie 3y ago
    I wouldn't go so far to say roid rage is a myth, 600mg is not an outrageous amount, the hardcore bodybuilders and some athletes will do much more then that. It's certainly possible that 3x that dose induces unnatural rage.
  - MagicMoonlight 3y ago
    It’s not a myth, it absolutely does increase your anger and your drive. It also massively increases libido. That’s one of the reason that transgender treatment is so insidious. Give a depressed teen girl testosterone and they will always feel incredible. Regardless of whether it’s actually a medically necessary treatment, it’s a treatment that makes you feel good. Psych meds can’t compete.
_yb2s 3y ago
Testosterone doesn’t cause rage issues directly, that is usually caused by excessive estrogen, which can also itself cause fatigue. It sounds like he just needed to lower his dose or take a drug to block conversion to estrogen. It seems like his doctor didn’t know what they were doing, or that he was actually doing illegal steroids at home and not physician prescribed TRT? What does testosterone have to do with a moral compass?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]